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Customs Stop, Drop, and Roll...1951 Chevy 3100 Redux

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RodGuyinCO, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. I should probably wait until I'm done doing what I need to do to this truck before posting anything, but I have a couple of friends who might want to keep track of my progress, sooo...

    I'm a bit nervous posting this because I have a lot of heroes here on the HAMB who do some amazingly jaw dropping work... I am NOT one of those people. I'm just a guy with an old truck who's trying to make it decent to drive around. If I shouldn't post it here, I'm sure the moderators will do their thing and dump it.

    I'm starting with the truck I did for my dad about 10 or so years ago. It wasn't much, but he kept talking about wanting to have a truck like he used to have that he could tinker with, so I decided to give him one. He was already in his 70's, so a frame off resto was out of the question. I did some sheet metal work, got it running well, my little brother rewired it, etc., and in the interest of time went with the overused "shop truck" look.

    This is what was presented to my dad...
    He drove it around for 3 or 4 years and then decided he didn't want to tinker as much as he thought he did...nor did he want to move 2 or 3 cars around in his trailer park carport every time he wanted to drive it, so guess who got it back? Yup, no problem there...:)

    However, due to life getting in the way, the poor gal sat and began developing issues and looking pretty shoddy due to not being driven and sitting outside under a tarp. It was one thing after another and the poor old 216 stovebolt finally gave up the ghost recently. This brought me to the point of either stuffing the truck into a shipping container and leaving it until I got around to doing a frame off, or...fixing her up and getting her running to try to make her a dependable driver again so I can make it to the Gunninson Car Show in August with a driveable truck this year. Hmmm, hey nothing like a deadline for some inspiration, huh:eek:? That's it!! To the Gunnison Car Show it's going to be!!

    Please stand by for another post so I can lay out "The Plan"...:rolleyes:
  2. Very cool. I'll stay tuned. :)
  3. Oh yeah..."The Plan"...
    I've not seen a step by step for the complete idiot for this kind of engine change, so I'm going to try to use this thread as a type of tutorial. Since I'm doing a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't exactly in the original "plan", this thread is probably going to hop around quite a bit, but I hope it can help someone somewhere down the road.
    "The Plan" was to find another 6 banger to drop in so I could just drive it around with the torque tube driveline still intact. Well, I found a motor. The candidate is a 250 CI out of a 73 Chevy Nova, or so I was told. There was no flywheel or bellhousing with it and was missing a few other parts.
    IMG_20170426_112929489.jpg . My machinist had a 168 tooth flywheel hanging around for me. I can't use the stock 216 bellhousing because the bolt pattern changed to the V-8 style (around 1962ish, I think). I would need a bellhousing with the "ears" on it since I was still using the torque tube driveline. Fortunately, I happened to have a 67-72 (?) Chevy truck bellhousing (casting # 3925505). IMG_20170427_171457706.jpg .

    I started looking at the front and rear spring shackles and decided they were in bad enough shape that I should bring them up to snuff...which meant pulling apart the front end...just a bit.
    Well, heck, since I'm doing that I may as well lower it front and rear, right?
    One issue and idea led to another, and, well... So much for "The Plan"...

    As these things go, I've probably bitten off more than I can chew in order to get to the show I wanted to in August, but...

    That's all I have time for this evening, but here's a picture of what happens when, "one thing leads to another...;):rolleyes:o_O

    Stay tuned...

    Oh yeah, suggestions, constructive criticism, and humor (including sarcasm) is welcome. After all, this is the HAMB. :D
  4. AVater
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,221

    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    Nice truck! looks like the '49 truck my dad had and I learned to drive in. Coincidentally, I had a '73 Nova i bought from my sister just before I got out of school and it had that 250ci six. She had special ordered the car and it had bucket seats. Looked pretty good. Problem was it was the first year of the big time smog engine movement and it used to race on cold start until the electric choke would kick down. If memory serves me correct the engine lost 50hp from the year earlier version. I changed the choke over to manual and that helped some but frankly despite being maintained it became a big time oil consumer by 50k miles. Must have been those tortuous cold starts. I had picked up a head from an earlier 250 and considered doing some work to retune it but in the end, I sold it and moved on.

    Keep on truckin! nice work.
    RodGuyinCO likes this.
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  5. I'm extra sensitive to "project creep". When I was in high school my brother drove a decent 54 chevy 1/2 ton. 235/4 speed- straight and clean white with dark blue trim. After a while he decided to upgrade it. Ever since I've wondered if he's ever learned to turn a wrench to the right? Every part of that poor truck was taken apart as if he were an early adopter of meth. Eventually the pile of parts was shoved next to the garage. Then, for some reason he shoved the whole mess off the hill and it sat 40 feet down and 30 feet behind the garage. He tried to sell it. Nobody was that stupid - eventually he gave it to a wrecking yard. It wasn't perfect to start with but probably today would bring $5-6k. I felt so bad for that truck to have been destroyed I swore not to start one that deep without most of what was needed to redo it- On Hand. I know I'm skittish but it keeps me from biting off such huge projects on a running vehicle and turning it into a non runner.
    I have bought non runners and brought them back to life though.
    Sorry for all that but it's good to think about if you're a wanderer like my stupid brother..

    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
  6. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,869


    The truck in my avatar has a 74 250 Full syncro 3 speed out of a later model truck and Nova rear axle with ?.?? gears. I stuck it back together that way in August of 89 to go to a couple of events with the plan to tear it back apart and redo the whole thing with a 396 and turbo 400. 100K+ later I had the 250 so worn out it wouldn't run. The Avatar photo was taken at Bonneville in 1998.
    The big problem is fan to radiator clearance and you have to find a short water pump or shorten the shaft on yours to run a shorter pulley.
    You won't outrun too many rigs on the highway but you will pass a lot more gas stations without having to stop and fill up on a road trip. I pulled 20 on road trips until the engine got tired.
  7. Thanks, guys.
    Mr48chev, I'm definitely hoping to put some big miles on it. Haven't got to the motor mounting part yet, but I've heard that clearance is an issue. Oh goody, more mods ;):)...
    fourspeedwagon, Yeah, project creep. I love that term. It's happened to me all my life. And it all started with bicycles, then on to motorcycles and cars...

    So, I bolted up the flywheel and bellhousing. But which starter to use? The stock Nova 2 bolt bottom mount style which attaches to the block? Or the 3 eared style that bolts to the 67-72 Chevy bell? I'll make it easy on you since I already made the mistake (this will be a recurring theme throughout this thread, I'm sure). I tried out a stock bottom mount for a Nova, but it won't bolt up. I asked for a starter for a 68 Chevy C-10 with a 250 (manual trans) and found one that works just fine. NAPA p/n 2464803. O'Reilly p/n R713238A.

    Next job was to try to get a compression test. I picked up the motor just a bit on the cherry picker and supported it on a small moving dolly to minimize movement. One battery and set of jumper cables (and a small jumper wire) later, I was doing the compression check. #1 cylinder was down. A leakdown test revealed I had a bad intake valve. I removed the head and took it in for a valve job.
    With the head off, I could see the motor is .030 over. Strange, but besides seeing what look to be cross hatch marks still in the cylinder, much of the inside seems pretty clean while the exterior is pretty greasy. I haven't checked the motor out completely yet, but it's time to take out the old 216...
  8. You can refer to the shop manual and it does a pretty good job so I won't go into much detail here. But during its 60 plus years, it looks like someone added a Muncie SM420 4 spd trans to the truck. It added some work, but that's how it goes. See below. I know it's old hat to most of you, but sometimes guys like me need pichurs and stuff:confused:;)...

    Remove the hood, front grille assembly, along with the radiator support/mount, radiator, etc. I can't use the old fan since the water pump shaft size is too large for the later water pump (plus it's cracked). Dang it.
    IMG_1314.JPG .

    I tried to take a few measurements, make a few notes and marks along the way...Not sure if they'll come in handy later, but I did it anyhow.

    With the frame at level, I have a couple of degree negative angle at the head.

    I ran a straightedge across the outermost tips of the fan and marked the firewall so I can have a rough reference point to work from later.

    With a 4 spd installed this makes engine removal a touch different from what the shop manual says since you can't just roll the engine and trans straight out the front like the shop manual says. You have to remove the shifter retainer and shifter first.

    Unbolt the bolts (or capscrews, as the manual calls them) from the trans yoke and torque tube (this is my first time messing with a torque tube setup, so please excuse my lack of knowledge here). Separate the U-joint ball from the yoke by sliding it back until you can access the actual U-joint. Bend the tabs open so you can unbolt the U-joint. My experience with getting the U-joint ball to slide back on the torque tube was to use channelocks on the serrated ring/seal to loosen it up a bit. Make sure the torque tube itself is really clean or it won't come back far enough. In my case, a little emery cloth was needed to get the torque tube smooth enough to get the U-joint ball back far enough.
    Once you've got the U-joint assembly out, use some baling wire to get the torque tube out of the way. Don't try to wire it to one side or the other. It won't go, cuz it's not supposed to...:D.

    Unbolt your yoke/trans mount plate from the trans crossmember. I put a floor jack under the 135# trans and removed the bottom flywheel cover to access the bottom trans bolts. I loosened both top and bottom bolts making sure the trans was supported. I removed the bolts for the trans crossmember and with a smack from a dead blow hammer got the crossmember out. With a couple of ratchet straps laced through the floor jack cup and around the trans, I tried to get it somewhat stableo_O. I finished removing the trans/bellhousing bolts and was able to roll/slide the trans back and out of the bell and lower it to the ground.

    The rest was pretty much a cake walk...

    It's starting to look a little bare down there between those framerails...
  9. Now that the engine and trans are out, it's easier to access the front end to take it apart, right?
    I pulled the brakes down to the backing plates. Pretty simple, even for me. However, the bolts from the backing plate through the spindles were pretty much corroded and not breaking loose. Trying to take the easy way out I heated it up using a MAPP gas torch figuring that would be hot enough to crystallize the rust to bust it loose. I was wrong. I had to drag out my portable oxy/acetylene torch to heat things up hot enough to get things to happen. I've read this on the HAMB numerous times that pretty much the only thing that works in this situation is oxy/acetylene and I knew better... Advice from a lazy guy: Just skip the waste of time and frustration and do what you know is right. JUST USE THE TORCH!!!;)

    In the interest of time, I'll keep this part short... After removing the kingpin lock bolts, I tried many ways to try to budge the kingpins; heat, BFH, bottle jack using the weight of the truck,... Nope, none of that worked.
    I was smart enough to have read other threads on the HAMB and took their advice. I just loosened the U-bolts that hold the axle to the front springs and hauled the axle/spindle/kingpin assembly down to a place in town that does tire and front end work on big rigs and spent about $75 or so and had them press out the kinpins. Money well spent.

    Next, let's remove the front springs...
    dmac1396 likes this.
  10. Hey, take a gander at the spring bolts and shackles. Most of them are this way on the front and the rear.
    Not to worry, though. I've got new shackle kits to take care of the problem...
    I already have the truck up on jackstands, so it was easy to put a floor jack under the springs to take the pressure off and unbolt the shackles in the front and the eyebolt in the rear. If you can raise and drop the jack until you find a "sweet spot", it seems easier to get the rear bolt out without a hassle. Drop the floor jack and the spring should come out just fine.
    dmac1396 likes this.
  11. Hmm, it looks like we have a problem...
    The rear eyebolt has worked it's way through the bushing and into the spring itself and doing a pretty good number on the eyebolt itself, so a new bushing isn't going to fix this problem. Both sides are like this.
    Options? Well, I called a local spring shop here that does good work. I asked about using the old spring pack with them making me a new main spring. He explained that he COULD, but in his experience what normally happens is that the new spring carries most of the load for the old springs and the main spring doesn't last and ends up breaking eventually. It was suggested that I get new spring packs, etc. Lots of good info, but it turns out the job would be about $550 for a new set of springs and a 4-5 week wait.
    Hmm, let's try another option. I checked online and not counting places like Classic Parts, Jim Carter, et al, which can supply the new spring packs (for a premium, of course:p...), I was able to find a pair of spring packs for around $275 delivered. I chose General Spring. They were about the cheapest and they were responsive and the delivery was fast as well. Website is:
    During my search on several sites, the same part number kept coming up, 22-184, for the set of springs I needed. So, I assume it's same imported spring and is bought by several vendors.
  12. OK, fine, now we're on to the rear end and springs...
    Hmmm, we may have a similar ordeal like the front end... Let's see, forged spring hangers vs. Rockwell hardness 60 spring bolts (from my research...) and 60+ years of abuse minus proper lubrication equals...let's see... THAT PICTURE!!!
    So, can I drill out the rivets (easy job, right?), remove the hangers, take the hangers to the machine shop and have them welded up and machined so I can use them again and then use a 3" drop kit?... Um, yes I could, but, guess what? I'm not going to!!
    Options? Well, being old and decrepit, worn out and with hands that don't work as well as they used to, I found an option... Here's a plan... let's order a TCI bolt in kit from Speedway. That kit number is Part # 432-4610-00 from TCI. I called TCI and talked to Steve. He answered all questions I had and he told me that the same kit is available as Part # 91043237 from Speedway and a few bucks cheaper. Awesome!
    IMG_1396.JPG .
    Here's the kit. It includes darn near everything you could need including some decent instructions.
    The only thing not included is the hard labor to...remove the rivets for the front and rear spring mounts so you can replace them with the mounts from the TCI kit.
  13. Oh yeah...removing the spring hanger rivets part...:confused:...
    I've taken out dozens of hot and cold pressed rivets over the last few years. I've read quite a few threads on how to do it and I've tried just about every suggestion. This is what usually works for me...
    First, I take an air chisel and try to chisel off the rivet head at frame level and try to locate the center. I centerpunch the rivet and then drill through the rivet using a 1/8", 1/4", and then something close to 3/8" bit (so I don't enlarge the original hole). At this point, I can usually finish getting the rivet out using the air chisel from the top end and "peeling" out the rest of the rivet.
    It takes longer than it sounds, but at the end of the day (literally...), you should end up with this...
    Oh yeah, besides the front and rear spring hangers, did I mention the extra work to cut off the old and poorly welded up and riveted in shock mounts? Yeah, there's that as well... You won't need them with the new TCI kit. Fun stuff!!
  14. raven
    Joined: Aug 19, 2002
    Posts: 4,619


    I built a front motor mount for a 250 to use in my 54 Chevy pu. No issues with clearance and used a late 50's v8 pu bell housing.
  15. Way behind on posts and pix...
    @ Raven: I have the 67-72 Chevy truck bell which is similar to the early SBC bell with the ears. The trans hole is different (larger) which will mean I'll need to use a Novak Adapter BR4, but that's another post... And, I can only hope I don't have tons of mods when I go to put the motor in, but according to Mr48Chev and others I probably won't be that lucky, but we'll see...
    Ron Funkhouser likes this.
  16. Let's take out the front spring bushings...
    Tons of ways to do it, but this is the stuff I had hanging around...

    Make sure your (grade 8) washers center on the bushing as you use your "puller", and make sure the pipe nipple is large enough to "house" the bushing as it pulls through. Use a ratchet or impact to start the pulling process. With what I had available to use, I used the shackles to space out the draw bolt so it wouldn't bottom out since my bolt wasn't fully threaded...
    Kinda like this...
  17. Have to take out the stock rear motor mount as it won't work with the new 6 banger I'm putting in. As it turns out, it's kind of integral to the clutch and brake pedal assembly, so since I have to pretty much take that out at the same time. Well, what the heck, let's just redo the bushings and powdercoat the pedal arms, right?
    Unbolt the M/C and the mount. I'm sure it'll be obvious, but don't forget about this bolt here when taking out the pedal assembly...
    After yet more air chiseling, grinding, and drilling out rivets, I could finally cut out the old rear bellhousing/motor mount.
    Ron Funkhouser likes this.
  18. Pulling apart the pedal assembly was pretty easy. Put pressure on the spring, pull off the retainer clip and it should come apart fairly easy. I'll order bushings from Classic Parts.
    IMG_1388_1.JPG IMG_1389_1.JPG IMG_1392.JPG
    The shaft the pedals go on is pretty ragged, but after powdercoating, the new bushings and manipulation with some emery cloth, I'm thinking it should go back together just fine.
    Ron Funkhouser likes this.
  19. Went to replace the rear main seal and check the main and rod cap bearings.
    Hmm, I think I need to call my machinist...
    IMG_1437.JPG IMG_1439.JPG
    Ended up taking the motor to the shop. Along with a hone job and new rings, the crank polished up OK and a new set of bearings, seals, and gaskets are going in. Let's hope for the best come start up time...
  20. The steering box has been leaking like a sieve, so since I have the truck down this far, let's take that out as well as see if we can do a quick rebuild/regasket kit and hope it goes back together OK.
    When removing the column, make sure you remember to disconnect the horn wire from the inside. You can try to shortcut the removal by not taking out the inner fenderwell like I did. It came out OK, but I'll end up having to loosening/removing it anyhow when I go to put it back in, so trying to take the shortcut didn't do me any good. Just sayin'...
  21. Since we have the front end apart and the steering arms and pitman arm off, I'm upgrading to tie rod ends everywhere.
    I ordered the 1" tie rod and ends kit from CPP, p/n# 4754TRK. Here's a link to their tech article on making the change:
    For today, I need to concentrate on getting those ball trunions out.
    IMG_1461.JPG IMG_1463.JPG
    On the back, you're pretty much ahead of the game since it's punched/marked pretty much in the center. Grind off the swaging so you can see that the swaging is gone and you're looking at the ball portion. This pic is getting ahead of the game, but it's the best I could find...
    If you're lucky enough you can press the balls out at this point, great.
    If not, you can do what I did, and...
    Cut off the ball tips.
    Drill through the center with progressively larger drill bits until you think you might have a decent chance of pressing them out.
    IMG_1469.JPG Start here.
    IMG_1470.JPG Half way out
    IMG_1471.JPG In progress.
    Some are larger and ornery and require a bit more work with a step drill before they'll come out... PB Blaster, WD-40 Blue Torch, or whatever your favorite is does come in handy, especially if you get frustrated and have to come back the next day to finish up.;)
  22. For the rear end, I have a 1988 S-10 rear with 3.42 gears. I had a friend take a peek at it who says it looks fine. He's replacing the axle and pinion seals for me now and I should have it back soon. For the record, IIRC, the stock torque tube rear measured about 62 1/2" from wheel mounting surface on the drum to the other side. The S-10 rear is about 59 1/2". I'm going to have to see how it all works out once I'm able to mock things up...
    I was able to come up with a T5 out of a 1982 GMC S-15. The same guy who checked out the rear took a peek at the trans as well. Initial reports are he'll put new seals in it and call it good...
  23. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,214


    The 250 six is about 2 inches longer than the old Stovebolt (216, 235,261 style sixes) so the radiator needs to go forward, or possibly use a pusher electric fan. Since you're going to an open driveline, almost any manual trans can be used. Keep it enclosed driveline, and your trucks current trans will work. I'd use the bellhousing mounted starter with a 168 tooth flywheel, but you can use a block mounted starter motor for a 168 tooth flywheel, the starter with staggered mounting bolts, but you'll have to remove (cut, torch off, knock off with a BFH) the lowermost/innermost bellhousing mount starter motor bolt boss (for clearance for the later block mounted style starter motor). I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
  24. Chris,

    Looks like you are making real progress. Am impressed by your thread, can barely keep track of what I'm doing, let alone document it enough to show others.

    Don't let Gunnison be an "end-all/be-all" goal, we all want you here for the show, regardless of what you drive ! However, if I were a betting man, would bet on you.........

  25. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,147


    I might have missed it but are you going to use an after market crossmember engine mount? You can also put one in from a '54+ truck, it has the slant mounts you need for that 250 bell housing I believe.
  26. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,204


    :D Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes.The joy of working on old iron:rolleyes::p.Please keep the updates coming as you are able.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
  27. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,147


    I've run a '56 235 in my '49 Chevrolet 1/2 ton for 20 years and 100 k miles. I have a '62 261 80 over, 270 cubic inches waiting in the wings, rebuilt. Transmission is a '69 Saginaw/ Borg-Warner 3sp+od. Following you here and contributing when possible.
  28. @ Raven: Used a Chassis Engineering kit for motor mount. Still have firewall clearance issues, etc.
    @ Mr48chev : Having issues with the motor install (stay tuned...). Can't press down fan flange as the pulley already contacts the water pump, etc..
    @ 56sedandelivery (Butch): Went with the bell housing mount starter. It seemed easier.
    @ Fivewindow Johnnie: Thanks, bud. Yeah, probably not going to make it to Gunnison with a running vehicle, but doing what I can...
    @Cosmo49 : Not sure which rear bellhousing mount yet. Could be I'm lousy with a search engine, but having trouble locating the 54-? mount and can't seem to find anyone who makes a substitute.
  29. Yeah, I'm behind again, but trying to keep up...

    Once you finally press out the balls, here's what you get...

    So, here's the kit I bought from CPP with the old steering arms...The one side would pop in just fine. The other end is a bit different. It'll go in if you put the tie rod end from the top, but it's a little tight from the bottom. I could probably force it and it should work OK, but I think I'll take it to a machinist... Your results may vary...

    I had read on another site about how to press out these balls and put together a couple of tie rod ends and sleeve to make yourself an adjustable drag link. Well, as mentioned before, your results may vary. Bottom line: Nope, those parts won't work (but, hey, I read it on the internet so it's gotta be true, right?:p). Generally speaking, that conversion would probably work in most conversions, but not mine, however. Whether someone changed something somewhere along this truck's 65 or so years, I dunno, but...

    I went to my local machinist and hot rod dude with my parts and explained what I had done and what I'd need. We decided to machine out the pitman arm just a bit and then taper it for a 7 degree tie rod (Speedway p/n 910-02909 or 910-02919, or whatever...). The steering arm hole where the trunion ball had been pressed out was glaringly HUGE and will either be bushed or welded up and drilled out and tapered to accept another Ford style 7 degree tie rod end. He'll supply the length of DOM and tap it with 11/16" RH and LH threads to accommodate the new tie rod ends and jam nuts so I'll have an adjustable drag link.
  30. So, speaking of steering stuff...o_O

    How about that leaky old steering box? Hey, I've never rebuilt or messed with a steering box in my life! So why not start now:confused:?

    I bought a steering box rebuild kit which included the necessary gaskets, bushings, bearings and races. Armed with the instructions that came with the kit from Classic Parts, I got to work... Well, that was after about 4 hours of trying to clean up 65 years of hardened grease, etc :p. And, sorry, but my workbench just about always looks this messy...

    This is NOT a rebuild!! It's more of a re-gasketing and inspection, and hoping for the best when I'm done...
    Anyhow, clamp that bad boy in a vise.

    I was able to use a set of Channelocks to break loose the worm gear adjusting screw locknut and then back off the adjusting screw.

    Loosen the locknut and back out the sector gear/shaft adjusting screw.

    You should be able to remove the sector shaft and gear.

    Finish removing the worm gear adjuster and you should have this:

    Remove the four bolts at the top of the housing and with a bit of effort (which may include a deadblow hammer?) and the worm gear and shaft (and in my case, the somewhat cumbersome lower housing) should come out. For the record (and it's easy to do), don't let the "ball nut" run down the worm gear on either end. Instructions say damage may result to the ball bearings.
    Disclaimer here: This is how I happened to do this. It was somewhat close to how the instructions included in the rebuild kit (hint: from the Chevy shop manual) said I should do it, but I had to wing it a bit here and there...

    Oh, did I mention this is a greasy, messy, job?...

    Oh, goody!!! More cleaning and degreasing and inspectingo_Oo_O!
    Disassembly should look like this...

    You're supposed to inspect the bearings, races, worm gear, and sector shaft and "housing side cover" bushings (where the other end of the sector shaft goes). I was dreading having to replace the bushings, races, etc., but as it turns out the bushing i.d's were within .001 of the new bushings that came with the kit. Maybe I was seeing what I wanted to see, but I thought the bearing and races looked fine...
    I pried out the metal "packing retainer" and cork packing. Using a socket, I replaced that with the new rubber (or whatever it is) packing/seal.

    Maybe we should put it back together now:eek:...

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