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Technical Steering help???

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 58belair, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

    What’s wrong with my steering setup?
    It binds up when u try to turn.
    It’s a gear box from a 1936 Chevy car

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  2. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,829

    alchemy
    Member

    Looks like the rod end attached to the pitman is not aligned with the stud. Did you build this?
     
  3. Could the Pittman arm be possibly be hitting the radius rod ?? Also, the stock 36 Chevy box leaves a lot to be desired, I had one originally in my 36 Pickup and I swapped it out asap. Mitch.
     
  4. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

    No it’s not hitting the radius rod It feels like it’s binding up in the gear box but just wanted to make sure the angle looked right or even the set up


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  5. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

    Yes I did. First one so trying to get some help.


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  6. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

    [​IMG]



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  7. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

  8. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,533

    BJR
    Member

    Disconnect the drag link, then turn the steering wheel lock to lock and center it. Make sure your pitman arm is pointing straight down. If not fix it. Point your wheels straight ahead and see if the drag link will fit. I'm guessing it's too short to run with the steering gear centered.
     
  9. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,533

    BJR
    Member

    Your steering arms that are connected to the tie rod are not angled correctly to have correct ackerman. It will scrub tires on turns.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  10. 52HardTop
    Joined: Jun 21, 2007
    Posts: 784

    52HardTop
    Member

    I take it it turns nicely to the right but not the left? It sure looks like you didn't center the box before before installing the pitman arm and the drag link?
     
  11. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 847

    goldmountain

    Since your pitman arm is pointed forward with the front wheels pointed straight ahead, I would think that your drag link needs to be longer.
     
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  12. redoxide
    Joined: Jul 7, 2002
    Posts: 402

    redoxide
    Member
    from Scotland

    Its a hard one to comment on because there is quite a bit wrong with the set up. Don't take that as a criticism of your ability to build a car, but you quite possibly need to read a wee bit on steering geometry to get a handle on the subject.

    Just looking at it in pics would suggest to me not to get in it for my own safety.. Looks like it will possibly bump steer quite violently in addition to that the slip angle looks to be miles out hard to tell on the castor angle but its not looking like its going to be satisfactory.

    I realise that doesn't answer your question on why it jams but there are a lot more visible issues with it that will cause significant steering problems before even detecting the possible cause of the jamming..

    perhaps to answer that question alone we would need to see a video of the steering passing through its full range of travel, the jamming problem might then be easy to spot, but the geometry issues would then have to be addressed to make the car drivable.. and that would require a full rethink on the steering set up anyway, so solving the jamming would be kinda futile as the car wont steer safely looking at whats on display..

    None of that is meant to offend, its a prod toward encouraging you to have a look at the principles of steering geometry . :) Just connecting the bits together wont provide you with satisfactory results, you need to connect them in a manner that allows it to work along with the suspension travel and forces exerted by the wheels as they track on the road surface and the tyres point of contact with the road relevant to the pivot point of the king pins . There are some glaring issues on the set up .. if your interested in getting it right your best to ask questions, get opinions and research for yourself . There is some great books and articles available on the subject of steering.

    apologies if i've gone on a bit
     
  13. Inked Monkey
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,508

    Inked Monkey
    Member

    Is the drag link hitting the frame and why does it have the bend in it? Looks like it would move all over the place when steering.
     
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  14. Start disconnecting stuff starting at the spindle all the way back the steering column...one thing at a time and run the steering wheel through the range of motion to see if after the item is disconnected the bind is still there. Process of elimination.
     
  15. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 377

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    drag link too short,with the wheels straight, the pitman arm needs to be pointed straight down.ackerman is off a little,but not as bad some cars with lots of miles
     
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  16. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 377

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    also looks like NO caster in the front
     
  17. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 14,795

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    start at the box with the pit man arm disconnected from the drag link, and adjust by the book. center it take the play out. then center the wheels and as said already see if the drag link reaches, from the photos I guess it won't.
    also I see a scrub radius discussion coming.......
     
  18. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,533

    BJR
    Member

    Ackerman off a little? Looks like way more than a little. :eek:
     
  19. redoxide
    Joined: Jul 7, 2002
    Posts: 402

    redoxide
    Member
    from Scotland

    I re read my reply and cant help but tink that its going to offend or anger some folk, its not constructed to do that, Im trying to be helpful :)

    A wee scenario for you here . My buddie had an issue with his car pulling violently to the left when he braked.. Because it was an issue that occurred when he braked he automatically assumed it was a brake issue. I said it was a steering issue but despite this the brake issue was pursued at great expense, new flexis, new hard lines ne wheel cylinders shoes adjusted drums skimmed etc .. and it still displayed a violent pull to the left.. I still said it was a steering issue guided by the contact point with the tyre on the road surface thrown out by the wheel offset .
    But not convinced, we checked the suspension, everything checked out, Eventually he went with it and bought new wheels threw away the adapters and brought the relevant geometry ( slip angle ) within tolerance. Violent pull gone .. never had an issue since.. so its worth getting a wee insight into the geometry aspect ..
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  20. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 377

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    sorry,I keep seeing a few more things-clevises are threaded out kind of far,actually looks like the radius rod shown in your photo would fit better turned over-one leg of the hairpin is longer than the other[normal]but the long side should be on the bottom.this would make the caster adjustment closer.Also the heim ends on the steering arms look to be in a bind,get some tapered spacers to lower them 1/4 inch or so.with the car sitting at ride height you should be able to twist the tie rod through the full range of the rod end ball freely
     
  21. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 377

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    BJR-acerman looks pretty close if he has a car with about 200 inch wheelbase-lol
     
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  22. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,533

    BJR
    Member

    Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.
     
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  23. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,829

    alchemy
    Member

    Can you straighten out the bend in the drag link? It would actually make it a little longer which would coincide with the pitman being off center.

    I was asking about the stud in the drag link fitting into the hole correctly because in the pic it looks like the tie rod is twisted upward so the stud would rub on the bottom edge of the hole (causing bind).
     
  24. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

    Ya the drag link is to short. So I’ll start with that. Thanks guyd


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  25. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

    So your saying my hairpins are upside down ?? The longer side should go on the bottom??


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  26. Story time: I had a 50 chevy sedan delivery with "sticky, wandering" steering. Had the original early chevy steering box with it;s original {worn} bushings instead of bearings. I bought a '53 chevy steering box in good condition with its' original 1953 bearings instead of bushings and it cured my wandering, binding steering problem. I'll bet your 36 box has brass bushings instead of bearings. As has been said, go with a later [53-54] chevy pickup steering box.
    Also, o\it appears to me the paint on the frame is broken where the pitman arm/ drag link has been rubbing on the frame rail reinforcing plate in photo 3. Has it been touching on a hard left turn?
     
  27. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,360

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
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  28. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,173

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Rrrreally? ;)

    Yes, the scrub radius is "in the next county". That front end is a mess. Poster child for death wobble if I've ever seen one.

    Easy fix though, "If" the owner wants to do it right, and source some proper parts.

    -Shitcan those discs that are shoving the scrub radius way, way out, and scrap those tinker toy steering arms.

    Find: Proper forged bolt-on forged steering arms OR a set of 37-41 Ford car spindles with integral arms, then find 40-48 Ford car brakes, OR F100 front brakes,

    Then definitely a more modern box. I'd almost go with cross steer due to that stepped frame & it's side plated gussets.
     
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  29. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 377

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    It looks like that would get you a lot closer to the correct caster to start with[5 to 7 degrees tipped back]
     
  30. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 202

    58belair
    Member

    It is set at 6 degrees back


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