I think. In another thread I was complaining of a noise my car made when I started it, which sounded like a power saw. I was thinking it was transmission/torque converter related, but some people said it was the starter sticking to the flywheel - I dismissed these claims, but I shouldn't have. I was under the car today deciding whether or not I had the patience to unbolt the torque converter from the flywheel (turns out I don't). I turned the flywheel with a screwdriver and heard a "thunk" and out of the corner of my eye I saw motion from where the starter solenoid was. Curious, I shimmied out from under the car, hooked up the battery, and cranked it over for a second. Crawled back under it, and looked at the solenoid - it definitely looked engaged, and when I turned the flywheel I heard the same thunk and saw the solenoid disengage. The car in question is a 56 Special with a 322 Nailhead and a Dynaflow. (I have come to realize that the "flow" in Dynaflow refers to the "flow" of the transmission fluid from every seal). The starter bolts to the engine with horizontal bolts, so shimming the starter would move the starter backwards, as opposed to down with a Chevy engine. I'm not sure this would help. I appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance HAMBland.
I've never had a "horizontal" bolt starter bind - but I'd have to wonder IF it has the right gear on the starter - stranger things have happened. If it only does this SOME of the time - then I'd have to wonder if the flywheel wasn't piloted properly or even welded properly (centered)- allowing excessive runout. I also knwo those nailheads had more than one pilot size on the flexplate.
Based on what I have experienced so far - I have started the engine several times and it has always made that noise - it does it every time. Anything is possible as far as the gear goes. I will add that the starter bench tested normally at the local auto electric shop. (not Autozone or Advance)
Does the starter pilot on a shoulder or the bolts themselves?? The ones I've tinkered with usually had STUDS and the starter either fit tight on those or more commonly the starter had a machined step that perfectly piloted on the motor/trans/spacer plate. If all that checks out then I'd be looking real close at the starter pinion gear. Just thinking out loud.......
From what I can tell, there isn't any machined step or studs. Installing the starter is a matter of struggling to hold it in place while you start the bolts - and the holes for the bolts aren't necessarily easy to find.
I think starter bolts often have a knurled shank that makes a tight fit in the hole in the starter and block that acts to sort of pin the starter in place so that it can't shift around. I wonder if somebody had replaced the stock bolts with normal bolts, and the starter is cocked crooked and tightened like that in a crooked position, just crooked enough that it makes it bind? Sure sounds like a binding problem. If you had the engine running and hooked a timing light up to the high voltage coil wire (instead of to an individual spark plug wire), and aimed the timing light at the spinning flexplate, that would tell you if there was a big wobble to the flexplate -- either off center or bent. The strobe of the timing light makes it easier to see if it's crooked at different parts of the revolution instead of just looking at a big whirling blur.
Interesting idea with the timing light. Problem is, I am scared to run the engine for long with the starter stuck to it. Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and try it. As far as the starter bolts go - mine were threaded all the way up.
Pull the starter bendix apart. All the dyna flowing could have filled it with oily dust and cat hair. Or the remains of the mouse that used to live there. If the bendix is gummed up the gear won't fully retract, voila, your problem. It's one possible answer out of several.
It retracted on a bench test, but in all honesty I am willing to try anything. I'll pull the starter off the engine tomorrow.
When you're in there look for burrs on the bendix and a shim that could be omitted/moved to tune the position of the starter gear. good luck
GasGiant, THAT sounds like a problem to me. There HAS to be something that locates the starter in the proper place. On the small handful of "horizontal mount" starters I have worked on - there was no way to actually measure the gear clearance - and it didn't matter because the clearance was designed in. The clearance was SET by the starter itself piloting on it's nose or some sort of step etc. Anything - even tight fitting bolts. Lots of wierd things have been used over the years - I recall even Ma Mopar used 2 different sized fasteners on their famous gear reduction starters. I guess what I am saying is that it seems to me that you have to have one of two things - 1. someway to locate the starter (pilot of somesort) OR 2. you have to be able to measure the pinion gear clearance to ensure you have it SET right. Do you have a Motor's Manual that might give you some insight to your particular motor/starter setup???
________________________________________________________ I'd say and I think others will agree that the threads all the way up the bolts may be your problem if there isn't a machined sholder/ for the starter to fit in. It's been 42 years since I had my 55 so I don't remember what the bolts were like or how the starter seated on the adapter but I think that would be a good place to start.
Whoah guys........I've had some really nasty starter problems on my prostreet car & have been all through the big vs. small starters, changing starter heads after the cheapo alumn head breaks...and even had this exact problem with a starter sticking to the flywheel / flexplate. In my problem, it came to light that it takes power to engage that starter, but it Also Takes Power to disengage the starter. Sounds funny, but it was just like your saying. Car cranks....you let off the key...and sometimes it'd keep cranking on it's own until the battery would completely go & sometimes it wouldn't....but either way...crawl under it & turn flywheel with a screwdriver to disengage the bendix from the flywheel. I tried cleaning everything, changing wire, changing ends, rebuilding starters, had heads filed to fit up perfect without shims....and it turned out putting a fresh / hot / completely charged battery stopped the problem completely. If theres not enough power to disengage, it just keeps draining the battery making the whole situation worse. Carl Hagan
Ive had the same problem when the keeper that keeps the starter drive on the armature shaft slips out of its grove. Make sure its still in place.
All great suggestions. I'll pull the starter and take pics tonight. I've gotten pretty good at removing it.
Okay, I tried putting some thick washers in as spacers, to try shimming it. Although the starter still cranked the engine fine, it also still got stuck to it. Battery has 12.7 volts on it. I went ahead and pulled the starter out. No evidence of damage on the flywheel or starter gear. I cleaned out the solenoid plunger, tried it again, still sticking. The linkage on the solenoid is shown in the pics. Although it moves freely and the action is decent, maybe the spring is worn? (It is hard, but possible, to move it by hand) So, at this point, I am thinking I need to rebuild the starter. Hopefully the rebuild kit includes a new spring. Thanks for the replies and advice, and if anyone has any other info I'm all ears.
2 things I see :1 lube the pivot point at the spring,it may be so dry it is causing a prob. 2: the pin from the solinoid plunger to the shift lever looks about wore out,replace.The contact pattern on the drive gear looks good/normal. How much end float in the armature? Another idea just poped in to my feble brain. You are not getting some kind of wierd feed back putting power to the solinoid while running are you. Can you see/feel the sol plunger moving to the released posistion when running? Hook up a test light with it running to the small start terminal, light should stay off.
Pics worth a thousand words!! Yes you ARE piloted which suggests that your alignment (gear clearance) is fine. What I DO SEE is some RUSTY stuff!!!!! Not a show stopper, but I can't imagine it helping your situation. I also notice that the rubber boot is torn on the solenoid - quite common but - what is does is expose that plunger to dirt, water and of course rust. Bare minimum that needs to be taken apart and inspected/ cleaned/ lubed. I doubt the manual calls for any lube on the plunger, but I'd put some dry film on it anyways - once you made sure it was clean clean clean. You may also want to clean that ring gear a little - but I suppose it will get "clean" as you use it, but I sorta doubt that's gonna do your starter pinion any good. Some food for thought anyways.
Carl E. Hagan Jr is on the right track: most sticky starter solenoids is due to a low voltage condition and on the Buick 322 this is usually caused by a bad starter relay. Seems I remember you havings issues with the relay and replaced with a Ford unit. As a trial jump from the positive terminal of the battery to the black wire that is attached to the solenoid and report back. Just be sure the car is not in gear... Willie
Hey gang, I did replace the relay with a Ford unit. Seems to work okay, save this sticking problem. Tried the jumping technique, engine cranked (sparky!), but it still stuck. For a pointless, non-permanent experiment, I put a little grease on the starter gear, just to see what would happen. It doesn't stick to the flywheel anymore, but this isn't a permanent solution I wouldn't think. Of course, now the car doesn't want to stay running, but that is a problem for a different day.
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