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Technical Starter on sbc

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Spanky65, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 98

    Spanky65
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    I was running a 4 speed and recently went to a th350 and my starter worked fine before the swap and I wasn't running any shims on it. Once I did the swap the starter makes a clanking noise and won't turn over, so I ended up with 4 shims on the starter and its still doing the same thing. If you keep trying it will eventually turn over and start.
     
  2. LuckyFord
    Joined: Sep 23, 2013
    Posts: 81

    LuckyFord
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    My new motor came with auto tranny flywheel and a starter he was using with it. When I put the new motor in with new flywheel and clutch, I also used the starter he gave me. It did the same thing your describing. I switched to the old starter that was on the manual tranny to begin with and it worked fine. Starters looked the same to me, but maybe they are slightly different depending on flywheel used?
     
  3. A flywheel is used with a manual transmission and has 156 teeth, a flexplate is used with automatics and has 168 teeth, it's also a different diameter.
     
  4. LuckyFord
    Joined: Sep 23, 2013
    Posts: 81

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    You are right. That answers that. That would make the gear on starter different also.
     

  5. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
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    Mr48chev
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  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,703

    squirrel
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    if the flywheel is an inch or more different diameter, and you have the wrong starter for it, it will be off by a long ways.

    Both sizes of ring gears were used for manual and automatics. It's not either/or.

    First thing I would do is measure the clearance between the ring gear teeth, and the starter shaft. It should be exactly 1/8" you can check with an allen wrench, if it fits but you can't turn it, then it's perfect. If it won't fit, its too tight, and you need to install one or more full shims. If it fits but it's loose, you need to install half a shim in the outboard hole, etc.

    guessing at the shims is not a good plan.
     
  7. vintage44
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 280

    vintage44
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    from NY
    1. New York H.A.M.B.ers

    I am just starting to tinker with a 350 sbc and tried a flywheel my buddy gave me but it was too wide to mesh with the starter. I put on a 153 tooth flexplate and it looks like it should work (I have the starter off). If my assumption that it will work is correct, what am I to think about the fact that the flywheel that was too wide does not look like it would ever come in contact with the starter?
     
  8. staggered starter mounting bolts, 168 tooth flywheel/flex plate. straight acros starter mounting bolts, 153 tooth flywheel/flex plate.
     
  9. vintage44
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 280

    vintage44
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    from NY
    1. New York H.A.M.B.ers

    Boom! Thank you, 38fordpickup! You have simplified this to the point that even I can understand.
     
  10. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,703

    squirrel
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    I remember by big flywheels take starters with two long bolts, small flywheels take starters with one short bolt.

    153 teeth = 12 3/4 " diameter
    168 teeth = 14" diameter
     
    pat59 likes this.
  11. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 98

    Spanky65
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  12. pdq67
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
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    pdq67
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    One thing I would like to mention is that GM makes heavy duty starters.

    You tell them from standard starters because the H-D ones will have a 3/4" to an inch long copper tube that fits between the case coil pigtail and the back of the bendix. This is because the field coils inside the h-d starter's case are longer so they produce more torque.

    My '67 350 SS Camaro engine came stock with one on it and when I had to replace it, I found out that it is also used on the 427 and 454 engines. Like an L-88 or an LS-6.

    And a V-8 starter on a 194/230/250, 6-banger will really turn her over!!!

    pdq67
     
  13. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 98

    Spanky65
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    So all starters with staggered holes are for 168 tooth? I looked up the part # on my flexplate to confirm its a 168 teeth. My old starter has staggered holes and I just bought a new starter with staggered holes neither work. I ended up putting 6 shims on both and still are too close to the flexplate.
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,703

    squirrel
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    How much too close is it, without shims? I wonder if the flexplate is made wrong...or the starter holes in the block are made wrong? Did it have the same diameter flywheel when it had the manual transmission?
     
  15. LuckyFord
    Joined: Sep 23, 2013
    Posts: 81

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    You may have a 305 not 350 block ?
     
  16. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
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    Spanky65
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    It's definitely a 350, is there a difference between 305 and 350 starters?
     
  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,703

    squirrel
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    no.

    But I would still like to know, did you leave the same starter on it when you changed from flywheel to flexplate? or did you also change starters?
     
  18. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 98

    Spanky65
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    Not sure, it was a cheap $20 flexplate. I'm not sure what diameter the flywheel was, sold it with the 4speed. I did run this same motor in my old 85 c10 with a 700r4.
     
  19. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 98

    Spanky65
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    Yes I left the same starter on when I switched from flywheel to flexplate. I bought a new starter and looked it up under an 80 c10 and that same vehicle list the same flexplate I bought and I'm having the same issue. I have a 1/8'' drill bit and can't fit it in with 6 shims
     
  20. LuckyFord
    Joined: Sep 23, 2013
    Posts: 81

    LuckyFord
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    I have a few different starters laying out in the bone yard as well as flywheels. All are sbc 305's and 350's, yes they are all slightly different, I just don't know where each one originated from. I had a similar problem, but I just switched starters and its fine.
     
  21. ol55
    Joined: Oct 1, 2008
    Posts: 485

    ol55
    Member
    from Virginia

    An 80's C10 truck may have a 305. Check the numbers. If it matters.
     
  22. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 98

    Spanky65
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    I think most of them do, but there's an option for a 350 in the computers at the auto parts store
     
  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,703

    squirrel
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    Some of the 305s came with a lighter duty starter, but the mounting holes in the block are in the same places.

    I would suspect the flexplate....but it's a bitch to change it.
     
  24. LuckyFord
    Joined: Sep 23, 2013
    Posts: 81

    LuckyFord
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    That makes good since, I looked at my starters and the bolt holes are all same, main difference is just in the body itself. Gears all same diameter on what I have.
    Signs pointing to the flexplate
     
  25. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 98

    Spanky65
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    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I have a TCI converter and the flexplate has two different bolt hole sizes and the bolts wouldn't go through the smaller holes and there was no correct pattern for the large holes, it would always end up with two large holes and one small hole, so I had to drill one hole larger. I'm thinking that flexplate was made wrong or boxed wrong.
     
  26. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,703

    squirrel
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    I doubt it was boxed wrong, there isn't a Chevy 14.08" diameter flexplate that I know of. Most of this stuff that you buy for $20 comes from offshore, some of it is made well, some isn't...and they dont have any old cars over there to try it out on.
     
    pat59 likes this.
  27. Spanky65
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 98

    Spanky65
    Member

    Thanks everyone for the help. Ended up just buying a TCI flexplate
     

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