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Featured Technical ***September 2017 Banger Meet - A Change of Seasons***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 737

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a buddy that has a whole spark plug collection and a majority of the early ones are nothing but gimmick on top of propaganda to sell the unique but not necessarily functional design. A number of them talk to plug fouling. I suspect that the design of the plugs I have are probably work real well on a low compression, constant RPM, stationary engine. They look cool on the engine but that is as far as they go. I suspect that they were getting hot enough that at higher RPM they were igniting like a diesel on compression. Now I know why the valve cover on my Cragar/Miller says 'use high compression plugs'
    The gap on the 'First American' spark plugs is at .040 and there is no way to adjust the gap smaller. I've gapped the Chumpions at .032 and they are working well.
    I've gained 2 to 3 MPH on my calibration hill. From a dead stop at the bottom I can now do 47 to 48 MPH at the steepest part. Up from 45 MPH.
     
    G Baese likes this.
  2. walls
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 427

    walls
    Member

  3. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,783

    Bluto
    Member

    NO IMAGE......There are many many models of Mallory. Generally the older the better ... NAPA has the large caps and a few other parts you can order Don't trust the large condenser they are paper filled. I dropped Petronix modules in all my stuff many years ago
     
  4. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,430

    V4F
    Member
    from ca
    1. HAMB Old Farts' Club

    yep , electronic dist. are the best for no maintenance . fs in mine .........
     
  5. 4bangerbob
    Joined: Jun 29, 2013
    Posts: 6

    4bangerbob
    Member

    Been half way round the world (Russia) do some work for the past year or so and started to notice there are some model B engines here that were put into a Russian built jeep from late 30's through 1959. some history of the jeep is at this link

    http://wwiijeepparts.com/Archives/WW2RussianGAZJeep.html

    Jeep uses Model B engine with single down draft carb or Russian design and a centrifugal advance dizzy. Model B head with cast C and 3 bolt mount water pump. Oil pan is a Model A as is the bell housing. jeep is 4 wheel drive and center section of the differential is model A front and rear.

    Upper cowl section is 30-31 model A as is the dash.

    Crank shaft is fulling counterbalanced from the information I have seen.

    some pictures of a restored Gaz 67 and engine from an unrestored Gaz 64

    IMG_4085.JPG IMG_4086.JPG IMG_4087.JPG IMG_4089.JPG IMG_4093.JPG IMG_4094.JPG IMG_4095.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  6. 4bangerbob
    Joined: Jun 29, 2013
    Posts: 6

    4bangerbob
    Member

    seems all of my pictures did not up load so attaching some more as below

    :)
    IMG_4084.JPG IMG_4096.JPG IMG_4128.JPG IMG_4129.JPG IMG_4130.JPG IMG_4131.JPG IMG_4132.JPG
     
    winduptoy likes this.
  7. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,783

    Bluto
    Member

  8. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,108

    Crazydaddyo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have one of those GAZ engines new in a box. Military surplus brought over here.

    .
     
  9. I'm going to try this here and if nothing else maybe I can get pointed in the right direction or start to clarify my thinking, maybe learn something in the process. I don't really want to do a stand-alone thread because I'll get far too many opinions from guys that don't have a clue about Model As, you know how it is. Oh, and yes, I've done a search, thanks in advance for that advice.

    I have a '31 Model A coupe, basically stock, running/driving survivor. Springs and shackles are not in great shape, and it has no shocks at all, which seems to be fairly common, but seems strange to me. It actually rides pretty ok-ish.

    Separately, I have complete front and rear axles, torque tube, wishbones and springs that came from a restored car, nice shape. I was told it was a '35 but they are later, '37-'41, with juice brakes. Wide 5 hubs and wheels. I have an F-1 pedal assembly. Just to keep things confusing, I have a dropped axle in my '41 coupe but I might go back to an un-dropped axle for more of a taildragger stance, so I could use the '41 dropped axle in the Model A if needed.

    My plan (at this stage at least, things can change) is to upgrade to juice brakes on the Model A, and probably add modern tube shocks because they are cheaper. I would also like to drop the front axle and lower the car. I will be keeping the banger, hopefully making some upgrades to it and the transmission. I have a '39 trans on the shelf, but it sounds like I should maybe be looking for a Model B trans with later internals. I don't want to use a T5 or anything modern. That's another conversation, so let's just assume I'm keeping the banger, stock trans and closed drive.

    Is the path of least resistance simply to swap everything to do with the juice brakes onto the Model A axles? Worry about the dropped axle, springs and lowering etc separately.

    Is there any advantage to running the later axle(s)? This would involve changing spring perch positions and I'm guessing shortening the torque tube, probably some other stuff I haven't thought of.

    I'm trying to avoid a big snowball, and I don't want to turn this car into another long term project, I've got 2 other cars in pieces.
     
  10. Andrew Mccann
    Joined: Aug 2, 2016
    Posts: 197

    Andrew Mccann
    Member
    from Bristol UK

  11. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,783

    Bluto
    Member

    IT'S ABOUT 200QUID......

    IT'S NOT MINE! NOT MY AD NOT MY CRANK!

    Country code for Poland is 048

    If your still confused I am very sorry.

    Send the seller an email.


    You have any Polish friends? I doubt this seller speaks English.
     
  12. 5280A2
    Joined: Sep 8, 2014
    Posts: 68

    5280A2

    Here are some observations from someone with a Model A powered Model A hot rod with juice brakes and a Model B transmission; starting with the transmission. The Model B transmission is not a simple swap into a Model A. It requires a Model B flywheel housing and part of the Model B oil pan to support the integral bellhousing on the B transmission. You can use an A oil pan with the rear part of a B pan added to it, or you can modify the B pan to seal at the smaller Model A rear main cap; either one takes some work. Once you fit the pan you will find that there is no rear mount that fits the B flywheel housing into the A chassis. They used to be made by Specialty Auto in Rosemead, CA, but they have not been available for several years now. Your alternative is to fabricate something to work as a rear mount, but again, not a real easy task. Since you already have the later transmission I would recommend a Cling's adaptor which allows the V8 trans to be installed with the Model A flywheel housing, rear motor mounts, and original wishbone and pedals. A little spendy (about $500.00) but lots easier than the B transmission. The original pedals can be adapted to juice brakes more easily than mounting the F-1 pedals in my opinion.

    The front axle question is also one of how simple or complex do you want your modifications to be. The later axles like you have acquired don't measure the same as a Model A between spring perches and the perch bosses on the later axles are 1/4-inch shorter than those on the A axle so the Model A wishbone won't work with the later axles without modifications. Dropped Model A axles are readily available and bolt right in, and can fairly easily be converted to juice brakes with readily available spacers and bearing adapters. So for simplicity I would recommend a dropped A axle.

    Somewhat similar for the rear axle; the axle you have acquired has the spring behind the axle and must be modified to fit the Model A configuration with the spring over the axle. The torque tube and driveshaft also need to be shortened to use in the Model A which adds complexity and expense. The Model A axle can easily handle the horsepower and torque you will develop with a modified four banger. There are lots of flathead V8 powered Model A's running the stock A axles. A Model T rear spring will bolt onto an A axle with a couple of spacers on the shackles and will lower the rear of the car significantly. Adapting the hydraulic brakes and your wide five hubs if that's what you want to use is also relatively simple. The backing plates are a direct bolt on to the A axle, and some of the complexities that many people go through with this modification can be eliminated if you are going to run modern shocks. A lot of folks recommend partially rotating or even rotating backing plates 180 degrees to eliminate interference between the hydraulic brake bleed valves and the stock shock mounts on the A axle. In your case just cut the shock mounts off the axle and bolt the hydraulic backing plates on straight up through the original mounting holes. To avoid contact between the backing plates and brake drums you need to cut about 1/8-inch off the lip of the backing plate, and a similar amount off the back edge of the brake drum. Otherwise the V8 parts are a bolt-on for the Model A axle and you don't have to fool around with a lot of other modifications.

    Good luck with your project; there's tons of information on here that you will find helpful as you go.
     
  13. Andrew Mccann
    Joined: Aug 2, 2016
    Posts: 197

    Andrew Mccann
    Member
    from Bristol UK

    Thanks for clearing up the price.
    I may chase it, seems reasonable
     
  14. @5280A2 , thank you for taking the time to write a detailed reply, I really appreciate it. Great info, it's going to help me quite a bit.
     
  15. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,145

    Stovebolt
    Member

    A little "left field" issue.

    Has anyone have any pictures of a banger in 32 rails with a 28-29 body?

    I would like to see how the engine looks like using stock 32 mounts.

    Thanks in advance
     
    ghornbostel likes this.
  16. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,783

    Bluto
    Member

    Stovebolt-
    That is a classic lakes racer set-up
    A Google image should get you hundreds of photos..... from all eras

    Andrew-

    You do know that's an NOS crank..... IT'S CHEAP!!!!!
     
    Crazydaddyo likes this.
  17. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,145

    Stovebolt
    Member

    you'd be correct Jim, but what I am looking for is a detailed shot of the engine on 32 mounts, and how the mill sits from a side on short - trying to work out the aesthetics of such a ride
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017 at 8:53 AM
  18. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,783

    Bluto
    Member

    JIM

    There were a
    lot of banger Lakes Racers.... The challenge of making a banger go fast dates back a very long time to the begining of Hot Rodding
    Honest you should have no problems finding photos. Problem is many ran hoods but that's how we got all this Used Speed Equipment here today.
     
    Stovebolt likes this.
  19. Does anyone have an opinion on what a complete Riley 4 port head is worth? About the same as a 2 port? Or more or less....for that matter...what's a 2 port worth? Looking at buying 1 or the other and need to make a fair offer. Thanks.
     
  20. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,120

    RussTee
    Member

    5280A2 very good explanation the only thing I would add is to point out the cost factor by the time you work on the motor a bit it is just as cheap to build another frame with a standard small block cev and auto that will give much more power I know they are belly button but I have found that by using standard modern parts and standard construction methods you can end up with a car you don't have to push to keep up with traffic parts off the shelf at the local parts store . If you want to keep the old style running gear join the club I use it, it has cost me heaps, it is great fun if you are into playing with the mechanics of cars, you will be slower than other cars in most hot rod clubs but it is our choice I enjoy it but don't complain later you have been warned. Also do it properly bodge ups with old used parts are not the way to go do it safe do it well and your car will stand out and be admired, good luck.
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  21. Not sure on value as you hardly ever see one for sale but if you have a chance on a Four Port Riley I would suggest you buy it. Has to be worth more than a Two Port. If it is cast iron there should be a date near the water pump. If it is aluminum still buy it. I would think a Two Port is worth 2-3 grand.
     
  22. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,783

    Bluto
    Member

    Update notification emails to me have ended:oops:

    Was it something I said?
     
  23. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,783

    Bluto
    Member

    I thought some of you might find this interesting.
    You can also slow the video down on Youtube using Youtube's control settings
    NOT MY VIDEO ......

     
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  24. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 746

    johnneilson
    Member

    I have seen this before, good video.
    It really demonstrates the need for proper plug placement in chamber for efficient combustion.

    J
     
  25. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,430

    V4F
    Member
    from ca
    1. HAMB Old Farts' Club

    well I learned some . alky didn't seem to burn well , acetylene was to much soot . to bad he didn't try nitro .
     
  26. choptop4
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 621

    choptop4
    Member

    Got my uncle's banger up and running this week. Run's so much better with the manifold and new carbs.
     

    Attached Files:

    winduptoy and Binger like this.
  27. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 33

    PhredH

    Choptop4,
    Is that hot water heat to the intake manifold or nitrous?
    Phred


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  28. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,783

    Bluto
    Member

    Steve

    I am sure he made no jet change for Alky and no extra compression either
    Nitro? Well he doesn't seem like a "NITRO" kindda guy. AND the head would have melted.

     
    Crazydaddyo likes this.
  29. Lättähattu
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 11

    Lättähattu
    Member
    from Finland

    Here a question for you banger gurus. I bought a model B engine, 3 bolt water pump, C-marked head, fuel pump and counter weight crank. But numbering doesn't make sense with Ford numbering.

    Engine number is: HI (star) 992 4 (star) 8 (star) 43
    Bottom row could be a date of manufactory or rebuilt 4/8/1943. But how about HI 992?

    Is this industrial engine, factory rebuilt, German one, Russian one or something else?

    By the way, the casting number is 196 392 and there are no diamonds.

    IMG_20170914_070917.jpg
     
  30. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,108

    Crazydaddyo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    If you haven't read this, and many other pages on this site about the Ford 4 cyl. , check it out:

    http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/diamondblock.htm

    .
     

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