The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sixbangr, Jan 14, 2011.
in Florida 3 is the limit if you regester them
when i sold 8 carc in 2001 they got intoutch by letter
i replyed i was in finantual destress
they let me go
i think if uou contact them and tell them the situation it may go through
just another govt ploy to gouge extra cash out of the public.... seems ok since they spend the rest of our cash so responsibly.... thus concludes our lesson on sarcasm for the day.
I used to sell 20 or so cars a year in Ohio. Your 5th sale made you a defacto dealer-all the responsibilities (liability, records keeping, etc.), with none of the advantages (sales tax exempt purchases, dealer tags, etc.). If a dealer was found guilty of something fraudulent (title jumping, odometer tampering, deceptive advertising), he could be fined treble damages by the court. I don't recommend playing any games with auto titles and the DMV in Ohio. The Ohio State Patrol does have an investigator, but they never bothered me. You can put your cars in a family member's name, but if you've done repairs, or could be construed to have known of some defect or improper repair that leads to litigation, that person will then be involved.
Oregon has no sales tax, but still limits the number that a non licensed person can sell. But you can't buy a dealers license without a comercial sales location. double BS. I don't know what fines they could levy. it seems that after cited is the time to go to court.
years ago I was charged with a fine without being cited. I went in and demanded a citation so I could go to court on the issue. they refused to cite me and the whole thing just disappeared. didn't cost me but I'm still pissed
Any vehicle I sell, I link into our states DMV licensing and report the sale immediately..reason is two fold.
1. It is the law to report the sale within 10 days.
2. It protects your ass (since the car is still technically yours), therefore potentially accruing parking fines, accidents, against it.
If I am the seller, the buyer plays by my rules.
Ya man I have had this happen to me. Its a tricky game and almost impossible to play buy the rules in this state.
I have a friend and a fellow HAMBER who has about 30 cars all runners all in his name. A guy from the county came by and told him he has too many cars. So he started selling them off one at a time. Then came the catch 22 of how many you can sell in a year. Damed if ya do damed if ya don't . They try to kill the Car hoarders from all angles.
I find myself not putting my projects in my name till Im sure of the direction I am going in with them. That way they cant tell what I have or have sold.
I don't post much but this topic really irks my nerves from personal experience and I wish to share some valuable information with other fellow OHIOans about this.
OHIO takes this 'car selling' without a dealers license very serious and it can go on your record as a misdemeanor ! There is NO limit as to how many cars you can buy .I collect old cars and have bought 20+ a year now for several years. But god forbid when you go to sell them they will get you if you pass their allowable number !
They will make you pay tax on the KBB/NADA value of that classic car, not what you stated as the sale price, or even on the bill of sale ! You will have to pay tax on the value of what THEY say you sold it for, for each car within that 12 month period. Only if you reach the limit. If you are under it you are OK.
TITLE TRANSFERS = a sale. Gift, giving to a spouse, family member, even selling to the junkyard is a title transfer. Any time that title transfers out of your name counts as one. If you have a 14 ft boat with a title, fitted with an outboard motor with it's own title, and the trailer it sits on with it's own title - that is 3 transfers right there.
WATCH what you do. Just like someone else said earlier in this thread it is like preaching to the choir when trying to tell them you sold them at a loss, for financial reasons, or storage reasons. They won't care.
I am stuck with a slew of cars I want to sell because I've lost my storage. All garages, barns, storage places are full even cars in the house.. no room for others and no interest..but have to WAIT to sell them! I can't even send them to a junkyard where the titles will be issued a CERTIFICATE OF DESTRUCTION because it will count as a transfer out of my name. (not that I would dare send a car to the junkyard) I am not even selling for profit, I don't sell for profit. Every car I own is in my name for reason that I collect, I never planned on selling or having to sell them. I just have no place to put them and am forced to sell at a loss. But have to wait due to this law!
On a different page - make sure when you sell a car, sign over the title ..try to have the person put it in their name immediately. Reason being.. go down to your BMV ask them for a print out of all of the vehicles titled to you.. Scan through and mark off the ones you currently own, then focus on the ones you no longer own - My printout reads that I have 17 vehicles I don't even own anymore that are still in my name. After I signed them off and witnessed/stamped by a present notary ! YEARS later.
Becareful what you do. Always stay one step ahead, write everything down. Write down phone numbers of the people you sold the vehicles to incase you are checked and need to contact them. I am 25 years old and I've been bit in the ass so many times.
What it all seems to me is "Screw The Little Guy". The little guy needs to earn a living, but the powers that be throw every road block they can throw in front of the little guy to keep him from earning a living.
Probably a poor choice of words. When you say "earn a living" it sounds like he is a car dealer. What the guy needs to do is "get rid of some toys so he can move".
6 year old thread. the DMV still sucks. glad they didn't do this nonsense in the 80's when I had lots of cars.... I didn't register all of them but I'm sure I sold more than allowed anyway. what baffles me is a guy with 20 cars for 20 years can't sell 5 of them in a year to send his kid to school?
In east T.N. its 3 a year.I tried to get a dealers thing a while back they wanted about $3,500 plus you had to have a paved parking lot with lights and an office with a working rest room. Bruce.
Seems like there are so many areas where a smart enterprising person can make a go of something, if they've a sharp pencil. Margins are tight but doable.
Till he factors in a bunch of bureaucratic bullshit, fees, licenses and tax, and then looks at the resultant mess and says "fuck it." Thanks, guys.
If the title is never in your name, that car doesnt count.
Ive bought sold and junked probably two thousand cars in my lifetime. I simply do not put the title in my name until I walk into the revenue office to buy tags. I leave the titles open. When I buy I give the seller a written signed statement of what I paid them. Actually its a as is statement Stating there isn't any warranty. And I get a Bill of sale from the seller. If I get stopped by the law I never show them the open title. Just the bill of sale as proof that I own it. There is no sales tax on a vehicle if it currently has a Arkansas title. out of state titles the revenue dept collects the sales taxes when you buy plates. Sometimes there are auctions where great numbers of vehicles are sold by a single seller in just one day? Is that illegal? I attended one earlier this year. They auctioned 30 project trucks many without titles. I bid on every one and bought three. and two of the three did not have titles. Promptly Sold the one with a title for more than I had in all of them. And the title was open.
Always make the buyer sign a As Is statement stating the price &date of sale. and that there isn't any warranty. As long as you have that statement you can prove you do not own it any longer.
................At 81 I hope you're not just now figuring this out.
Never heard before of a limit to the number of cars you can sell in a year. I'm with Highlander, I call bullshit on it. Better read the actual law in your state and parse the words carefully. On the face of it, it reeks of unconstitutional restriction on private business involving personal property. If you are engaged in the business of buying and selling cars for profit, that is a different matter. If you engage in private business of buying cars for your personal use, and selling them for whatever reason, that is not a business. Again, I'm calling bullshit. Just because some bureaucrat takes his job too seriously doesn't mean he is right. Read the actual law, parse the words carefully, don't rely on some internet forum discussion.
I can assure you that the words I posted are factual.
Selling a car on an open title is illegal in WI.
Selling more than 5 of your own cars, titled in your name, is illegal in WI.
To sell more, or to legally reassign a title requires a Dealer's License
Do you have the actual law, quoted from the code?
As an example, here is the law for Missouri posted in post #47 by Chief_Wannabe. As he noted, the law does not apply to cars titled in the name of the seller.
Beyond that, there is another exemption listed in subsection 2, which we don't have to specifics of here.
And finally, the bottom paragraph specifically says that the number of vehicles sold is considered Prima Facie evidence of intent to make a profit. Prima facie evidence means that you have the freedom to make a case in a court of law that making a profit, or being a business, is NOT your intent. If you are successful at making that case than the case against you must be dropped.
This is what I mean about parsing the words. There are at least 3 ways that I picked out that the law may not apply to you. To say that you can only sell 5 cars in MO and that the 6th car automatically makes you a dealer is flat out false.
Found this. Still reading it...
That is not the actual law, that is a summary posted on the DMV website and it does not carry the force of law. It may or may not be accurate. Somewhere there is an actual code, in the state vehicle code or civil code. That is what everyone has to go by; you & the state. Don't just expect every bureuacrat to know and follow the law as written. In fact, you should expect them to both not know it and to misrepresent it, that is what they do.
I know the LAW! I get reports from WI DMV listing those who were fined for selling too many cars or for selling cars not titled in their name.
As a WI Dealer, I am responsible for knowing the law. Probably better than those that enforce it!
So what IS it. Got a link?
We usually sell 4-6 cars per year without a dealers license. My wife owns 2 Subaru Service Centers and we have quite a number of free service loaners. We are always upgrading the stock and sell the older ones.
The state came around with the same b/s 4 or more per year you need a very expensive state license and bond. I told the investigator to pound sand, these were my cars and licensed in the company name for over 1 year. I then told hm to produce the statute that would force me to get a license to sell our legally owned vehicles. I then told him either produce in writing or get off my property.
to date some 4 years later he has never darkened my door. Most "officials" are full of them selves and can't produce anything in writing. We operate in Washington State.
I had some bureaucrat show up at my door once, many years ago, for "Selling too many cars in 1 year" (I believe I exceeded the number by 2 or 3 more then I was suppose to have sold) and he told me I had to get a dealers license. I told the guy I was only selling the car(s) to pay my bills, and was not making any money on them, and I couldn't afford to get a dealers license.
He told me not to sell anymore for the rest of the year, and he left. I've not been graced by such an experience again. I suspect someone complained, and I suspect the guy had to show up and tell me what I was doing so he could justify his paycheck to someone. Gene
Are you moving to WI?
No, not a chance. Let's see it as an example.
Separate names with a comma.