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Hot Rods Scammers finally got me.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by khead47, Mar 31, 2018.

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  1. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,570

    khead47
    Member

    This concerns an OT vehicle, but could easily happen with something H.A.M.B. Friendly. A couple weeks ago I bought a little gas saver. The seller insisted we both go to the S.O.S. to transfer Title. OK, no problem. Understand that. I asked the seller three times if he had a good, clean Mi. title. He said yes, yes, with a heavy Dearbornistan accent. Everything seemed to go well at the S.O.S. I left with the Application for Michigan Vehicle Title in hand. The seller claimed to have lost his title. The application looked fine. Soooooooo...., yesterday I get the not so green title in the mail. REBUILT SALVAGE !!! Had I done my due diligence by running a VIN check, or demanding to see the actual title, I could have avoided this crap. Live and learn.
     
    Speedwrench and Clay Belt like this.
  2. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,808

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    I just finished 8 weeks of car shopping for my daughter. For those that bristle at the cost of Carfax, try VINAUDIT at www.vinaudit.com for less than $10, or 5 of them for less than $20. It's not as detailed as Carfax, but the important stuff is there.
     
  3. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,509

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I got caught with this scam on my 17 year old daughters car. She worked and saved money for her dream car. Bought it in MI from a guy, that answered every question right. We got the car home to get titled and it came back salvaged. Michigan's the only state that you don't have to reveal that a car was salvaged. This guy buys them out of state and fixes them and sells them not telling the seller. yes I screwed up by not checking the vin, my fault, but lets be honest when selling a car. I did have the title and still have a copy, it says nothing about salvage or rebuilt on the original MI title. David Richard Wells sold the car, and I have been waiting to get his name out since 2014. Live and learn, still have car.
    Tony
     
  4. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,570

    khead47
    Member

    Yeah- the car was purchased from Erie, Pa. by the guy in Dearborn.
     
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  5. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 3,729

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I've bought vehicles before with a salvage title and didn't think anything about it. I guess if had of been hidden I might have gotten pissed, but I knew beforehand what I was buying. I tend to buy stuff and wear it out, so in the long term it doesn't matter much. If you were trading regularly I could see maybe having some diminished value, but that can work to your favor, getting a popular vehicle for less than market value of an unblemished one.

    What about the titles on your old hot rods? Are they salvage titles since so many of them are built from pieces of several cars? Does that matter to you? Does it decrease the value of them?
    We've never had titles here on anything older than 1975, so we didn't have those problems. Now it's a rolling 35 years, over that age we no longer have to have a title.
     
  6. uncleandy 65
    Joined: Jan 14, 2013
    Posts: 477

    uncleandy 65
    Member

    Call the attorney general's office in the state it was sold from. Explain the story to them.
     
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  7. philo426
    Joined: Sep 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,952

    philo426
    Member

    The question is...is the car running ok or are there problems?
     
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  9. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,570

    khead47
    Member

    Car runs great. Does have numerous small problems that I can deal with. Has less than 20K on the clock ( real ), and I did pay maybe $1500 under retail. My bitch is the sneaky tactics of the seller. Also rather pissed that Mi. does not say salvage on title app.
     
  10. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,844

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As long as there are people and there are cars there will be misrepresentations of vehicles for sale.
     
    little red 50 and XXL__ like this.
  11. butch27
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 2,807

    butch27
    Member

    Tell the truth those middle eastern try do scam in everthing they do around here. And the salvage thing is one of the most expensive. Yet there is no law they are breaking ?? Does't seem right.
     
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  12. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,965

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    It's most certainly NOT limited to cars.........if money (or it's equivalent) is changing hands, there is potential for
    deception......."let the buyer beware" became an old saying a loooong time ago.

    I am most certainly NOT condoning the behavior, only saying it is part of the human landscape.

    Ray
     
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  13. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,965

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    It's "not right". But, as a legal matter ("breaking the law") it probably depends on questions asked and answers given and the laws of the State.

    EDIT: Just googled Michigan SOS regulations....State does 'Brand' titles for salvage and rebuilt vehicles and only permits their return to service after a State Inspection. Same process as most States have had for several years now. Seems the 'lost title' claim is what bit the OP.

    I never buy a late model OT vehicle without running a Carfax report. I buy the '5 reports for $99' package. Cheapest insurance around. Carfax provides very thorough history of reported transactions, including insurance claims history, title issuance, etc. Not totally foolproof, but pretty damn close.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
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  14. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,570

    khead47
    Member

    Worst thing is I shoulda known better. Actually I did, but refused to listen to that little voice in my head !
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  15. low down A
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 187

    low down A
    Member

    the ole greed thing bit you. who buys a late model driver without title in hand before money leaves hand. this has nothing to do with on topic hot rods.
     
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  16. catdad49
    Joined: Sep 25, 2005
    Posts: 3,798

    catdad49
    Member

    I understand your feelings about not being told the "whole truth"( I think I'd be pissed). That being said, is the car fixed correctly? Did you get a good deal? How long are you planning to keep it? Is your daughter happy with it? Having a salvage title effects the resale value quite a bit when it comes time to sell. Until then, enjoy.
     
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  17. philo426
    Joined: Sep 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,952

    philo426
    Member

    You Are fortunate that the car is good but it is sneaky not mentioning it has a salvage title which could prevent you from buying it due to the fact it could 've been a flood car.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  18. With all of the natural disasters that have occurred in the last few years there are likely thousands of vehicles floating (no pun intended) around out there that were deemed totaled by insurance companies. I'm sure they don't all get crushed. If the car was flood damaged, electrical (electronic) issues might not show up right away. My Sister had a late model, low mileage (under 15,000 miles) fairly expensive car that got 2 inches of water in the foot-wells from flooding. The car was only two years old but the insurance company totaled it because of all of the electronics and wiring under the carpet (the battery was under the back seat). They cut her a check and towed it away. There may be some poor soul in Michigan or Alabama wondering why in hell he's having so many electrical issues with what looks like a practically new car.
     
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  19. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,868

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    "Hey, stoopid bitch dumb, you buy car, yes? No? You son-of-a-fuck! Buy car!"

    Just adding a little local flavor to the conversation. They don't know how to cuss properly. Titles, well gotta see the green before they see the green. In MI you DO NOT have to transact at the SoS. This applies to all of "our stuff" too. Clear titles from any state will do, but MI has clamped down on the "antique car from NY" trick with the bill of sale thing and no title. More hoops to jump through now so titles are best. Salvage titles are a good warning to look deeper, but if a totaled car is sold by the previous owner (they get to keep the car and get a lesser check from the ins co) it comes with a clear title. The ins co has to get the car/title for it to become salvage. Food for your head, can be worth your while but be honest. I sold a totaled car with a clear title, it was totaled simply because it was old, very fixable for someone that hustles. Maybe you were scammed about the paper, and yes, this transaction could play out on something HAMB-friendly. Heads up...
     
  20. paul55
    Joined: Dec 1, 2010
    Posts: 3,090

    paul55
    Member
    from michigan

    Potential problem here, is that some insurance companies will not insure a "salvaged car", with full coverage.
     
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  21. partsdawg
    Joined: Feb 12, 2006
    Posts: 2,534

    partsdawg
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minnesota

    Wonder how many traditional hot rods owned by members here have clean accurate titles?'
    See posts where some are looking for papers....but not vin plates... for vehicles.
    Lots of 'Historical Documents' are listed for sale on other sites and they do sell.
    Also see posts where it's suggested that rather than finding stamped numbers or following state rules for titles workarounds are suggested.
    Buying a "clean" tile for a '55 Chevy that doesn't match the vin can get you on the road but a accident or any incident where insurance companies or police are involved it can/will become a issue.
    When buying not everyone looks at this.Not every seller will disclose.Some sellers might not even know.
     
  22. Kyron
    Joined: Dec 28, 2006
    Posts: 117

    Kyron
    Member
    from Peoria Az

    I tottaly get what your saying ...... imo a good clean title is one without a lein and is in your own name.

    Did you ask if it's salvaged or what major work has been done?

    I've had plenty salvaged cars/ trucks and never had an issue with insurance, hells... I even had a suburban that I totaled and bought back TWICE from the same insurance company
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  23. Technically a salvage title is a clean title. Although he should have been a stand-up guy and disclosed that. Our OT (family, somewhat daily, tow vehicle) '04Expedition has a salvage title. It was in a frontend collision and I tried to find evidence before I bought it and couldn't. I look at it this way, you don't drive the title. Again he should have disclosed that info at the onset of the deal.
     
  24. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,574

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Some of the best "beaters" I have owned were "put together cars" (this was back in the days before they had salvage titles). A friend of mine had a side business of rebuilding wrecks, and if he got in a particularly "good" car, and knew I was looking, he'd call me and I'd jump right on it. Since you're a "car guy" who most likely has good instincts, this will probably only hurt your feelings, not your pocketbook.
     
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  25. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 2,524

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    Exactly! My son had a car given to him from his cousin. The cousin didn't know the car was a salvage and it wasn't on the California title. My son registered the car in his name and got the new title in his name. Got full coverage insurance on it. Well.....one night as it was parked, it was rammed and totaled. The insurance company showed up to have a look and declared it totaled. The sad thing is that when the agent ran the vin it came back as a salvaged car. We contacted the Ca. DMV and they then told us that it was indeed a salvaged car but it was their mistake that it was not listed as a salvaged vehicle.

    Right away, the payoff was slashed in half and he told us that if we had known that it was a salvaged vehicle that there would be no way that my son would have had full coverage insurance on it. We asked why the insurance company didn't show it as a salvaged vehicle and the guy had no answer.

    Someone dropped the ball on this title.
     
  26. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,570

    khead47
    Member

    The insurance thing also bothered me. And to " Low Down A "- The subject is applicable to " our " cars. No Hamb friendly vehicles history is available on Carfax or the like, and I doubt that a Google search of the VIN would show anything. Shit ! I once looked at an old Panhead Harley basket case that had Norton numbers in the cases. Just giving a heads up to be careful in Michigan.
     
  27. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,570

    khead47
    Member

    Hey theHighlander- I am well aware that one not need to do the deed at the SOS. I have probably bought and sold a 100 vehicles in Mi. in my 70 years. But I also understand the reasoning to change the title at the SOS. I once sold a 1954 and a 1957 Fords to a scrapyard to get them outta my driveway. Sighned the titles over in the drive and the cars went away. Two weeks later the state contacted me about the two fords found on the side of I94 !
     
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  28. ... Yep .. I remember my dad selling a Chevy wagon to a couple of "Detroit locals" years ago and signing the titles over in the drive and watching it go away ... Two weeks later he gets a call by the cops saying the car was involved in an armed robbery and the registration came back to him! ...
     
    klleetrucking likes this.
  29. dorf
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,087

    dorf
    Member
    from ohio

    if it is not worth a lot and you are just going to use it up . who gives a squat ?
     
    tfeverfred likes this.
  30. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,796

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Exactly.
     
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