Customs Sam Barris Mercury grille question

Wow that's pretty neat.

 

hey-no wonder i couldn't find a stock grill for my '51 Ford coupe-Ha!-now, anyone have a clean '49 Meteor grill and opening edge laying around that you want to get rid of cheap??
Some great info for building modified grill for Mercs here.

 

I recall seeing a pic online of a red/maroon Mercury with a Sam Barris Merc style grille, I'll go look for it.

I have some questions if you guys have nothing to do:

-Are the ribbed back sections of the Sam Barris Merc grille painted, chrome or ?? It would probably be cheaper for me if I didn't chrome the ribbed part but after the sides are welded on it will need to be painted or something.
-What would you call the steel I'd use for the brackets, I need to talk to my fabbing buddy about that... angle iron?

 

I'm pretty sure on Sam's that part is painted the same dark green as the body. I will check back through my pics and see if I can tell.

So far as how to mount it, I would just fab up some brackets however your fab guy thinks will work best so it is solid. The Chrysler bar in mine is mounted with some angle strap shelf bracket thingies from like Home Depot....it's wobbly. I need to redo it. If you search through Rikster's archive of the Hirohata Merc pictures, there is one from an 80's Rod and Custom issue from when it was being restored that shows the back of it's 51 Ford bar. Pretty crude....welding rod and metal tabs. You'll want to do it better, but you can bet Sam's was likely done as crudely (by today's standards) but it will get you started.

 

Painted...

 

Here is a photo of how they did it on the Hirohata Merc back in 1952... kind of crude. I also remember reading they used some rubber or a spring to mount it so that it would not crack after a while.





And HERE is a link to some more photos of the grille from an R&C article (large scan)

 

Most likely not.....they're probally the stock rings frenched to the body...remember there were no 52-54 Ford or Mercs yet...

 

Thanks guys.

I was at a race all last weekend so the car sat. I'll be able to mess with the car Sunday and take measurements and more pictures so I can instruct my buddy what to do. I have to get the measurements just right for the width so I'd like to get your input on this before I give the parts and measurements to Neil.

The ribbed section is probably made from two of them, if you count the sections. I'll take pics with the two sections and the end pieces I have.

Now I don't have to get it exactly like the Barris Merc with the ribbed section, but I do want to get it pretty close with the bar and the cones.

 

Hey John, here is another mounting option for you to consider:

I was at a show looking at the Rod and Custom Dream Truck this weekend and looked at how all the grille bars are mounted on it. What they did was weld some threaded rod on the backs of the pieces and then used a nut on the front side of the mounting plates to set the depth and then lock washers and nuts on the back to attach them. In the truck's case, there were 4 (I think) vertical bars painted black that has all the horizontal bars mounted to them and then those 4 bars were bolted to the radiator bulkhead. It looked like a nice solid way to do it compared to the "floppy" angle brackets that are holding my grille bar on and I am thinking I might do a similar mounting technique to sort it out. I took some pics of it for you and will post them up when I get get my camera uploaded.

 

Yeah I'd love pics I'm not sure I 100% get what you are saying.

If you saying then that the grill comes off and nothing would be left hanging in the grille cavity, then I get it.

 

Sorry to take so long to post a pic...finally got my camera uploaded. Anyhoo, here is a pic of the mounting studs on the back of the bars on the Dream Truck. The studs attach to a vertical bars that are bolted to the radiator support. So, yes, you can take the grille out in "one piece" by unbolting the straps off the support.

 

Ah I get you now, thanks.

 

Bump. I have to humbly question whether that threaded rod is strong enough to support the weight of a grille? I really drive my car, potholes and all, that setup looks flimsy to me.

Any more close-up pics of this grille? Are the bullet ends welded all the way around the front mating surface, so that the merge is all blended in?

Also, should I assume that the grille parts I am using are chromed steel, and the rear ribbed pan is perhaps aluminum?

 

Not sure if the threaded rod will be strong enough to hold a grille of this size or not. I can tell you the Chrysler bar on my Merc is on with a couple of angle brackets and bounces around quite a bit. I need to redo mine with a more reinforced bracket set up from what was done by whoever built it, but I need to focus on getting it back on the road first.

So far as the bullets on Sam's grille, I do not think they are welded to the bar at all. I think all the pieces are bolted together on the backside. Here is a pic I took of the grille at the Sacramento Merc Gathering.

 

Nice. Makes me almost want to source different bullets though.

 

I came across this article in the January 1954 issue of Car Craft... perhaps it can be of use for you.

Click on the photo to get a larger scan.

 

Wow awesome! Dank u! Interesting that they mounted it from the bottom pan.

 

So would the consensus be that I should bolt the bullets onto the center bar, not weld? I'm still not 100% exactly liking how the bullets meet the center bar, doesn't that join look kinda crude? Maybe I should try a mockup with the '55 Caddy center bar I have.



I think I will try taking some more serious pics over Thanksgiving weekend. Time to go find my duct tape.

 

maybe you should cut the ends of the center bar to match the sides of the bullets. that way it will join nicely.

 

The ends of the '51 center bar? If you look at Dave's pic, the bullets look too small. I'll have to drag the stuff out and take some pictures and do a light mockup, I feel some obsessive thoughts coming.

 

Yup they should be contoured so the bullets fit into the end with a tight fit. Just like if you were going to weld them together you wouldn't leave any gaps before welding.

 

Gotcha. The SB one does not look that 'fitted' on the ends but I'll be getting on this pretty soon.

 

great thread, I liked the sam barris grill better than the hirohata grill but with the bullets you need to lose the stock signal lights and with the hirohata style you could keep the lights, in the end I chose a different path for my car but I'll continue to watch this thread cause I'm already thinking about the next merc.

 

I'm not running front turn signals for the moment, they would take away from the look of my car.

 

Are you using different bullets than the 51 grille bullets? Sam's used the 51's, but it looks like yours are plain bullets without the little "wings" that are on the 51's? Maybe it's the angle. Anyhoo...I agree, I would cut the ends of the bar to meet the bullets nice and tight. You could still weld the whole works together, I think that would look nice and clean.

 

If you are referring to the bullets in the pic with the '55 Caddy bar, those are actually not bullets those are dummy spots that my car used to have.

I have a complete '51 Ford grille plus an extra set of the rear pans:

 

Gotcha. How about the dummy spots with the Ford bar? That might look real nice....

 

Yeah I'll be mixing and matching for pics, that's part of the fun.

 

1951 Ford bullets + 1955 Cadillac Bar:



1951 Ford parts set up like Sam Barris Mercury grille:

 

Observations: The center of the rear pan is hitting a vertical support on my car I would have to notch that. Also, I don't have I have much room to add the rear pans behind the bullets and might not bother.

I thought I'd have to narrow the overall setup a bit to fit, and I'm finding that I might have the opposite problem, I might have to be very careful not to remove any width from the bars, and honestly, I think I might need someone to do some special welding to fill in some of the gaps.

Would the grill bar parts be steel? Should it be mig or tig welded?

One more pic: