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saginaw help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by pompadour, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. pompadour
    Joined: May 9, 2006
    Posts: 558


    im going to go look at some saginaw transmissions there are 3 speed and 4 speed one stronger than the other? i know saginaws are not as strong as a muncie but i am going to have a 2300lb car with 250hp and 4 inches of tire on the ground so hooking up isnt a problem(i know i wont)...i saw on a trans site that the muncies the more rings on the inputshaft arent as good is this a strength issue or this the same with the 0-1-2-3 rings on the saginaw transs thanks
  2. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,607


    Generally Muncies with 2 rings on the input shaft are M-20, one ring usually fine spline are M-21, and no rings are M-22, rock crushers. This info is courtesy of Pete at Hudson Performance. I have come across all kind of bastards due to parts swapping which is amazingly interchangable among Muncies. I have in the past used Saginaws with much more horses and rubber and they have stayed together fairly well if you don't beat them, which I do, and I hjave done a fair amount of walking as well. If you can get a good saginaw four speed really cheap go for it otherwise opt for any Muncie, all of which are vastly superior to any Saginaw I have ever had. Just yacking from experience.
  3. pompadour
    Joined: May 9, 2006
    Posts: 558


    whats the deal with the syncro transmissions and non...some have a non syncro 1st? some are completely syncroless...are the ones without syncros trucks only
  4. Model A Vette
    Joined: Mar 8, 2002
    Posts: 1,075

    Model A Vette

    All the Saginaws, 3 & 4 spd, from '66 and up are all syncro.

    "GM Saginaw transmission ratio identification

    Grooves 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Notes:
    0 2.85 2.02 1.35 1.00
    1 2.56 1.81 1.37 1.00 Third gear on cluster has 25 teeth
    1 2.56 1.81 1.44 1.00 Third gear on cluster has 21 teeth
    2 3.11 2.20 1.47 1.00
    3 3.50 2.48 1.65 1.00

    *** The grooves are found on the input shaft. I am sure there are exceptions to this rule."
    I think the 3spd rings are 3 for 3.50 first, 2 for 3.11 and 1 for 2.56.

  5. pompadour
    Joined: May 9, 2006
    Posts: 558


    so since noone has said anything about one being stronger than the other i am assuming they are the same( yes i know what happens when you assume)
  6. valkokir
    Joined: Oct 25, 2007
    Posts: 196

    from DeKalb, IL

    never heard of 3spd vs. 4spd being stronger or weaker. There are several opinions saying Muncie's are much stronger, others say Saginaws are just fine. I got my 1967 3spd Saginaw (2.85 first) for $50 off of craigslist and the insides look like new. For the price, and putting it behind a mild SBC, I think It'll be fine. I'm a firm believer in "you get what you pay for", from what I've read, that applies greatly here. I'm pretty sure that a newer saginaw would be better than a used and abused muncie. Everyone I've talked to personally who've run repair shops for 20 years say my saginaw will be fine in my car, and it will be heavier than yours, probably around the same horsepower. The rings are definitely not indicative of strength, only gearing and therefore what vehicle it likely came out of.
  7. OldSub
    Joined: Aug 27, 2003
    Posts: 1,064

    Member Emeritus

    Muncie's are usually said to be stronger. I once broke a Muncie and replaced it with a Saginaw. When I sold the car a year or two later the Saginaw was still doing fine.
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 53,463


    Saginaws lasted forever in the low hp applications, they only look weak when you expect them to do too much. Like I did with one behind a big block when I was 17 :)
  9. Eddie's chop shop
    Joined: Sep 4, 2006
    Posts: 592

    Eddie's chop shop

    800hp big block Saginaw 4 speed, holding up just fine so far..... when it breaks I will go new M22
  10. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,662


    The front bearing goes bad , the snap rings may loosen up and the spring preload washer next to the rear mainshaft bearing can break up with abuse.But like the guy say above,they can hold up ok or blow up;)

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