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Technical Rut Row, Did I screw up?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Clyde Walker, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. Clyde Walker
    Joined: Aug 11, 2016
    Posts: 20

    Clyde Walker

    So I installed the air cooled Fordomatic in my 58' F100 ( I know it's older than the truck).
    Long story short. After looking at how the bell housing bolts were on the outside of the transmission, as opposed to riding inside the bell housing as is 'normal' and in addition the funky monkey half moon headed bolts that hold the converter to the flexplate screaming at me to put the converter on first....I did just that. When I put the transmission in I could see the input shafts clearly going into the converter. I jiggled the transmission around and rolled the flexplate back and forth using the ring gear teeth with my pry bar until it took both shafts in (yeah that came wrong..). I then worked the transmission until it was flush with the bell housing, started the bolts, then slowly tightened them. I didn't hear any scary "pop's" or "tinks" when tightening the bolts.
    Obviously if it goes down the road with no issues, no harm.I'm not as well versed as many of you but I have not ever seen an automatic set up the way this was. I do not have a manual for it (no kidding huh?). So I just kind of tried to read the way things were set up and it looked to me like the torque converter was supposed to go on first. Really my question is: Are the air cooled Fordomatics supposed to be installed this way? Or did I screw up and it's cross your fingers time? Regardless I will know soon. A bit under the weather right now, when I'm better I will crack it off and see what's up.
     
  2. Back up for Clyde.
     
  3. AldeanFan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 736

    AldeanFan

    I have the manual, I’ll check tonight after work for you.

    I expect if you’d caused a problem you would have known right away.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  4. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,792

    Jimbo17
    Member

    Sometimes it's not what you know that gets you into trouble it's what you think you know that is not so!!!

    Jimbo
     

  5. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 21,129

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Here is the remove and replace from the manual


    FC6115AA-C265-4991-9E1E-EFF8E84B54DC.jpeg 7BCDED61-1DA1-4AEF-A489-39CB09049447.jpeg
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  6. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 21,129

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    This leads me to believe that you can change the trans and leave the converter mounted to the engine. It talks about how to remove it but doesn’t talk about re installing

    05D764A6-580D-41C1-B8B4-5220AFF48E14.jpeg
     
    egads likes this.
  7. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,664

    squirrel
    Member

    yeah, you did it creatively. How badly you screwed up, we don't know...maybe you got real lucky and it's fine. But that it not how you're supposed to install a transmission.
     
  8. I kind of remember doing this similar process way back while in High School. It was a 53 Ford Victoria. I soon learned that you can't hear the pump drive fingers snap off when they arn't engaged properly in the converter. I never did it that way a second time.
     
    Doublepumper, belair and squirrel like this.
  9. egads
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 1,022

    egads
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That assembly does go in converter first. then the bell housing, then there is a tool that goes into the converter lining it up to the hole in the bell, then the tran's. You are probably ok.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  10. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,687

    belair
    Member

    pull a smoke test on it.
     
  11. egads
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 1,022

    egads
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That is correct.
     
  12. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,001

    Doublepumper
    Member

    That make at least two of us that have done that.......... facepalm2.gif
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  13. I always stood the transmission with the bellhousing up and dropped the converter in and turned it until it seated. tied it back in that position. the installed the whole thing as a unit. Or just left the trans in the vehicle. unbolted the converter from the flywheel moved the converter back as far a possible and ties it back. Trap straps do a good job. Then pulled the engine. Many guys went on about changeing the trans front seal. I was always if its not broke don't fix it. So those who insisted on a new front seal got charged for a new seal that never happened. and they where happy and they didn't have a front seal leak.
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,664

    squirrel
    Member

    Another manual page, about Fords, starting 1954. Pretty clear that you install the converter into the transmission first. IMG_20190704_101648908.jpeg

    Sent from my Trimline
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  15. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,978

    Beanscoot
    Member

    When I didn't know better I removed and installed an automatic while leaving the convertor on the crankshaft. I was careful, and luckily the seal still sealed afterwards. This was a '69 Toyota.

    So I guess it's not the preferable way to do things, but if you are careful and lucky, it works out okay.
     
  16. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,664

    squirrel
    Member

    yeah, he might be OK. Let's hope so.
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  17. egads
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 1,022

    egads
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ford shop manual-- DSC00013.JPG Can be done either way.
     
  18. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 4,856

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    First one I ever did was a 283 with a powerglide, I left the converter on the engine. Put it back that way, too. I looked in the trans with a flashlight to see where the ears were, turned the flywheel until it looked right, and slid it on, rocking it until it seated up. Must have gotten lucky, it bolted right up and never leaked a drop.

    Later I found out I was supposed to take the converter loose from the flexplate...one of those, "Now you tell me" moments....
     
  19. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,378

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There are two ears on the converter, they have to engage into the front pump. If they don't engage properly it will break the pump drive. Don't start it yet. Unbolt the converter from the flex plate and if you can turn the converter with your hand along with moving it front to back about an 1/8" you are good. If you can't turn the converter, it is jammed up and the transmission has to come out.
    Good luck
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  20. I've installed the early Ford automatic like that many times. There's two issues you have to be careful of. The first is the mentioned front pump drive. If the trans goes in and fully seats against the bellhousing by hand, you got it right. Don't draw the trans in with the bolts, that's how you break them. The other issue is don't let the trans 'hang' off the convertor before being fully seated into the bell. This can break/crack the torque convertor snout, if it does at the very least you'll have issues with leaks at the front seal and replacing the seal won't fix it, you'll need a new convertor. This is the reason they recommend keeping the trans/convertor together.

    I'll use a couple of 5-6" long bolts the same size as the trans bolts with the heads cut off as guides, that helps a bunch. A remote starter switch can help too, allowing you to 'bump' the motor to get the pump drive properly engaged.
     
    winduptoy and egads like this.

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