roll bars and tech inspection

I dont know if I would go that far, but at a certain point, pretty much all the compromises start being on the "street" side of the equation. Around 11 flat in full street trim it usually starts to be more of a race car that you happen to drive on the street, and as you start going faster the biggest compromises on the street side end up being related to accomodating the safety equipment you need on the car in order to race it. When you get to the nines, the changes you have to make to the car, in terms of the full cage and the trans shield and so on, really mean its no longer really viable to use the car regularly on the street, unless you are a lot younger, skinnier and more flexible than I am.

 

I have a bolt in door bar, my roll bar is welded to the frame. The driver seat is bolted to the crossbar, and there's a permanent head rest above the driver seat.

I've put 75k miles on it like that...I guess it's not such a problem after all? but my car isn't a Model A, it has a lot more room in it.

 

I had a six-point with fixed side bars in one of my cars, its a bit awkward, and starts to grate on the nerves after a while, especially as I get older. And you have to back in ass first. A full cage with downbars in front of the dash is really difficult to get in and out of, even in a big car. Can only speak for myself, but a full cage in a Model A would get old on the street in about ten minutes.

 

I'm 32 and still holding at 175lbs so having to do some gymnastics is not the part that bothers me. It's basically that my time and money are short. The biggest issue for me is welding the thing to the frame. I definitely could it but it suggests a permanence that I'm not ready for... I mean really how the heck would you get the body off the frame without cutting the rollbar??? That's why I like finishline's suggestion of just attaching the rollbar to the floor with plates (he's a tech inspector at Atco). I'm perfectly willing to do that. I'd even weld it permanently to the floor.
There are a couple questions I have about the fabrication itself though. see drawing

 

Bend the main hoop out near the center of the vertical parts, to get it close to the door.

The stuff that's not specified, like where or which direction the bend in the rear down tubes is, and the distance they attach behind the main hoop...if it's not specified, then you can do what you want, right? But you still need to weld it to the frame.

A sawzall will get the bar out when it's time to take the body off. Or think about why you'd want to take the body off, and do that work now, so you won't need to do it later.

 

If you live near and race primarily at ATCO, then I'd just see what the tech inspectors deem to be permissible.

Seems to me that if you still want it, you could see if you could run removable side bars that use clevis pins but you won't be impressing anyone at the track cuz we know you only run high 12's and you only need a driveshaft loop and the usual 12 second stuff. Have fun broh.

 

OK LOL I'm not trying to impress anyone. I could care less what anyone thinks about my car. I just want to pass tech and have fun with my slow car. Basically I made a deal with my dad that I would put the darn rollbar in the day it went twelves. Well it shocked me and went 12.78 my 4th time to track. So that's good and bad news I guess.

 

Model A Citizen, I understand what you want and it may benefit you to call your local dragstrip and see if you could talk to someone that is involved with tech there (or talk to a local that knows someone in tech).

I had a similar issue with an old 62 Vette drag car that raced from 64 thru 78 with a pretty lousy three point bar. It was too light in my opinion and the welding to the frame was lousy. I cut it out and made a three point bar that I could remove (to chrome) and also since I am against welding too much stuff that would never meet spec anyways. If I weld in a three point bar and they tech it they will tell me to take a hike. I do not want a modern day cage as it will cut up the car too much and room for a guy my size in these cars is at a premium anyways and lastly it is a car that will be lucky to run better than 11:50 on a good day anyways (because I am building it that way).

My bar bolts to the frame and I would rather have it than not but of course it is what it is- a bolted in three point bar. It would never be as good as a cage, but then my car leaves the realm that I have built it to represent anyways. Many of these tracks and the tech know that there are guys doing fun runs yet how much tech are they doing with those cars? I have seem some cars run at test and tune that I would not go to the corner grocery store.

I spoke to a tech guy a couple of years ago at the local track and he told me to not worry. He said they are required to tech the rollbar/cage if it runs a better than 11:49. If it does not, they do not tech it. He did tell me if it was muffler tubing they would really frown on it (that might mean they may tell me to take a hike-I did not ask him). He told me if I wanted to run a chute (which I did not bring up, he did) they would not tech it either. He said if I ran better than 150, I believe, then they would fully tech the chute as well for mounting etc. He seemed to indicate they have certain things to tech depending on how quick/fast you are. If not he seemed to indicate they look to the quality of the build anyways. He did not elaborate too much on this but figured I knew what he was talking about.

This guy could have been out in left field as opposed to following the rule book but I have not seen anything in the rules to state yours or my situation.

Although I respect what hotroddon says, I do not see where "permitted" means it must meet spec. I have looked at the rules and have not found the smoking gun. If someone has the smoking gun that would be great, as I would like to read it. It may save me a headache down the road.

Muffler tubing may be more dangerous and welding to a metal floor even with a plate is not something I would want to test but if it is bolted to the frame they MAY not object too strenuously. This is what I believe he says they always look to the quality of the build.

The final deal is that no matter what we say means little. You may have to get it from the track where you may run. You have inspired me to talk to another tech on my next trip to the local dragstrip as well. -Jim

 

But we've heard from a few inspectors on this thread, some say it does mean that, others say it does not.

That's also why I said I "guess" that it means you should make it meet specs.

Kinda depends on how serious you are about racing the car, if you want to be able to pass tech anywhere no matter who's inspecting that day, or if you'd be satisfied to go home without racing some times.

 

Haha it does seem like a roll of the dice if I do it the way I want. I enjoy drag racing but I also like taking it on cruises. I've driven this thing on 600 mile trips. It's got a 2.79 open rear end that has never seen slicks. Even running 12.9's it's on a 2.2 60'. LOL Heck - I drive around the water box. And I only race on street legal night. I don't have a lot of time or money. I'm thinking I'll just take the car to the local track in the spring and see what the tech guy has to say. I REALLLLLY appreciate everyone's feedback on the subject.

 

I put a cage (with side bars) into my street-only truck, for safety more than anything. These old cars are shit-boxes when it comes to side-impact protection. Built it with occupant safety in mind more than anything. Here are a coupla shots....

 

I think talking to your local track tech guys is a good move, we have a 39 chev coupe that was an old Niagara survivor that races in the gasser series here. Anyhow the car is original to the day for the most part and the times are limited to 11.50's since he doesn't want to update the cage but has no problem racing at our two local tracks.

 

I mighta come across like a jerk in my last post, so here is an opposite post.

If you are pretty stuck on doing a roll bar, by all means do it. One thing I think would be good is if an old car like that got on it's roof, the bar would keep the whole deal from collapsing on you. All three of the roll bar/ cages I had were in unibody cars so I don't know the rules for a full frame car... Mine:
OT cars-->
http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=51409

First version of my 10 pt, note the clevis pins: ( I redid the front bars)
http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=38462

But you should look into connecting your seat to the roll bar. In an accident, some say that that it's fine and dandy you are belted into your seat but then you and the seat come loose and bang around in the car.

Attached seats:
http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=146750

Very safe in a rollover:
http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=145774

 

I like the driver's mount but not the passenger for street use. A break in a sheetmetal seat back brace or a bend in the bar allows give if rear ended. A straight tube might spear you.

 

prostockjohn- no offense taken. I really appreciate all the advice. Unfortunately for me- if I'm gonna follow the NHRA rules for an 11.49 car, I technically need to weld the roll bar to the frame in at least 5 places. (because the car has a real frame) Room in that little coupe body is tight. Especially where the rear bars are gonna have to go in to the trunk. I mean without bending them, those suckers are gonna be almost vertical. And as I've said, I really didn't want to have to tear the car apart and lift the whole body off the frame which is obviously necessary if I'm gonna weld it all to the frame. That's why I'd just like to mount the bar to floor with welded plates.

 

You can weld or bolt mounts to the frame and bolt the cage to those mounts, sandwiching the body in between. Not sure if that meets NHRA tech regs, but that's how I tied the whole magilla together on mine.

 

that would be too easy. probably not gonna fly. haha

 

lol! probably right.

 

I don't see how that's necessary? I did mine by cutting holes in the floor big enough to weld the bars to the frame, then made patches to fit around the bar and cover the holes. Carpet hides all.

Also you can bend the main hoop bars in towards the frame near the bottom.

My door bar goes under the floor, then over to the side of the frame.

 

"All required rear braces must be installed at a minimum angle of 30-degrees from vertical, and must be welded in." NHRA

 

If you are going to drag race on a regular schedule the first thing you should do is join NHRA and get a rule book to help determine the level you are going to be involved.

 

now does the rear bars have to go directly over the frame rails? in the willys im restoring, it never had rear bars, the main hoop is centered between the rear doors.(4 door sedan) and the frame is stock.
in order to get them over the frame rails they would have to angle them out at the bottem, was not sure if i could make a rear crossmember and tie them in there to keep them parallel ?

 

Also another thing to think about..lol Your shoulders need to be inside the main hoop and your elbow must be lower than the side bar while in driving postion. By the time you clear the door jam/door with the main hoop/side bars, you may need to move your seat closer to the center of the car if you have wide shoulders.

 

get an nhra rule book. build it properly to pass tech. short cuts on roll bars can be more dangerous than no roll bar.

 

installed a removeable roll cage in a 61 vette race car turned street/strip it had a square tube frame mounted plates on the frame and on the cage and bolted it together with the floor sandwiched between using 4 -3/8" bolts per mount when he removed the cage there were plates that were installed as they served as body mounts it was NHRA legal at the time. also did two street cars full cage welded to frame and the side bars are removable one was a comp. engineering kit just receivers with pit pins

 

You can run outriggers off the frame.

 

thanks Phil, i was thinking of running tubing from left to right side of frame to square it up,
i could not find anything in the rule book about that other than they need to be welded in.