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Technical REAL aircleaners for a daily driven flathead? (or other)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Kevin Lee, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,442

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    As the old saying goes, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

    So ask yourself: What is the first thing to get changed on a flathead? Usually it's bolting on a dual or triple manifold. Then you toss the stocker and with it the oil bath filter any hope of ever really cleaning the air your engine uses. Maybe you'll just use screens to keep the bugs out? Or maybe those screen+foam things to fool yourself into thinking the air will actually be a little cleaner? The one thing you're DEFINITELY going to do is change the oil religiously because well... you just will.

    Well... I don't. So I'm trying to find ways to make my oil last longer. I want filter(s) that work and don't look stupid. Ideas?
     
  2. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 27,748

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    ? don't change engine air filter oil. what style filters look stupid to you?
     
  3. bonzo-1
    Joined: Oct 13, 2010
    Posts: 339

    bonzo-1
    Member

    Air filter oil or crankcase oil.
    Dirty air does not make dirty crankcase oil.
    Unburnt carbon makes the oil black.
     
  4. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    On the ventilation system, you need a real aircleaner on the entry breather. Some sort of shell over a small carburetor aircleaner, the small hotrod type should be adequate here. I have a Canadian WWII Desert one that is an oil bath about the size of a grapefruit...
    On the carb side, I don't think anything really effective is available for multiple Stromberg or Ford carbs, though you could probably offset and plant the smaller size four barrel cleaners on a super Dual.
    I think the proper route for something actually effective would have to be a big oval fabrication, easier on a 59A than late engines. Use dimensional K&N chart to find sizes of big ovals (406 Ford tri-carb?) then try to find a good Delco or Motorcraft paper one, or maybe two stacked. Weld a flat plate to 3 bottoms from crappy 2 " filters to start...this is where early is easier than late, flay manifold! A top plate would function, some kind of fabricated oval dome would look a lot better. A big modern paper filter is extremely effective for cleaning, and tests have shown on big ones zero restriction at twice the flow a flathead will ever make...it should run a long time without clogging.
    K&N ones are very low restriction too...are there any real tests of filtering quality?
    Also, look into seal at carb mouth...some of the crummy little hotrod ones use a pinched down neck there with visible gaps! I read once that a GM test showed that a 1/4" hole in a good filter under dusty conditions would cut ring life 50%, so those little gaps need attention!
    Another possible route...look at the Highland Plating rebuild in old R$C...is an empty shell over carbs and hoses leading out of sight, allowing use of the little garbage can remote filters common on '80's-90's cars...this would be great on a 1940's rig with room to hide stuff in the grill area.
     

  5. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,915

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had 4 97's on the hemi in my vintage modified and originally ran the little chrome ones that everyone says are no good. Made me real nervous, so after one time out, I did what Bruce suggested. I bought a couple of pieces of aluminum plate the proper size; one 1/4" and the other 1/8". I used the thicker plate as the base and cut 4 2 5/8" holes in it for the carb tops. I bought an oval paper filter (yes, I think it was for a 406 Ford tri-power) and cut both plates to be about 1/4" larger than the filter perimeter. I tapped two holes on the base and used two full thread bolts that went through the top and used wing nuts to hold the top on. I really don't remember how I attached the filter unit to the engine; I think it was with worm drive hose clamps. Anyway it worked great, I never had any trouble with it. I liked it so well that the next year I bought 2 longer full thread bolts and another element and ran one on top of the other.
     
  6. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,469

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I use the old small Stellings full helmet covers with a K&N element inside. I bought some of those Chinese filter assemblies to rob the bases from, then threw away the louvered tops and the paper filters.

    I haven't ever changed the K&N elements. But I change my oil regularly, and it's always dirty (uses a stock '48 Ford style oil filter canister with a Wix element inside). Way dirtier than my daily driver ever gets. Not sure why. Maybe it's because the flathead doesn't have any PCV system in it?

    Bengine2.jpg
     
    cactus1 likes this.
  7. Do you have a full or 95% filter setup? If not, that may be why, not all of the oil is being filtered by the filter.
     
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,469

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I use the stock Ford system, which I think is a 5% system. So it takes twenty revolutions for all the oil to be filtered? :rolleyes:
     
  9. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,442

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Ha. Man I love that engine – all of the right chrome stuff.

    I've got an old chrome oil filter to add to mine and was looking at air filters. Looks like a 240Z filter would cover a super dual, but I would need to make the housing. I might just shop for some old Stellings style filters and add K&N elements and something better to the breather.
     
  10. Remind me if I am wrong but the flatty uses a road draft tube doesn't it?

    Part of the reason that oil changes were scheduled more frequently with our older motors when they were still newer motors was because the road draft tube sucked crap up.

    I like the Stellings helmets. Of course I used to like the louvered and open element filters for trips and duals as well, but the helmets have always been cool x cool.
     
  11. im a big fan of the oil bath look and will eventully end up with somthing similar to these with larger modern air cleaner element.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Kevin, you should make your own design similar to Hutty does. i would be very interested in buying one.

     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
    i.rant likes this.
  12. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,469

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The pre-48 flathead uses a vent at the back top of the intake manifold as the entry point. It has a hogshair insert in the cap to keep the hogs out. The outlet vent is a small tin housing at the front of the oilpan, connected via internal tube to the lifter valley.

    The post-49 flathead uses a vent on a tube at the top front of the intake manifold with a similar cap and insert. The outlet is via the same general area, but the tube then snakes down the front of the engine to let passing air create a vacuum and pull the internal gasses out and under the car. This probably helped as a rust preventative on post '49 vehicles.
     
  13. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,174

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cadillacoffin has already posted a pic of our 32 above but as you can see on a regular dual we had to offset the bases to make it work.
    image.jpg
     
    kiwijeff and clem like this.
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,307

    squirrel
    Member

    charleyw and i.rant like this.
  15. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]Here's the solution for a triple carb flathead...factory heavy duty air cleaner. Single on one side for the middle carb, two on other side for end carbs...
    Ford says each will hold three pounds of dirt, so you can leave the regular servicing to your grandchildren.
     
  16. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 13,152

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    What's that off of Bruce?
     
  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,307

    squirrel
    Member

  18. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Some pictures of the kinds of shapes I would love to be able to fabricate for something like a 3-carb flathead.
    Smooth domes, production looking shapes rather than a crude slab sandwich.
    I need to go see if the junkyard has gotten in any E-code Thunderbirds or street hemis this week...
     
  19. wearymicrobe
    Joined: Jul 27, 2007
    Posts: 264

    wearymicrobe
    Member
    from San Diego

    Man your going to be hacking something together that is for sure. Every single helmet style air-cleaner that I tried on the Y-Block and Flathead with 97's would kill power. Something like this worked "ok" but still not great.

    [​IMG]

    Those cheap Chinese ones that summit sells are horrendous. Lost something like 15-20hp on a flathead with them and air fuel ratios were all over the board. Does not matter if you even have a filter in them, the completely open ones with the K$N's are better then that. Edlebrock used to sell them.

    Not period correct but my mentor used to take the big oval ones and just make a new base plate that fit the carbs he had and swap them out if he was showing.
     
  20. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    What oil is not being filtered?
     
  21. Bruce
    Those Y block carb covers are cool. I wonder how many of those got tossed in favor of open element chrome ones over the years.
     
  22. From Street Rodder magazine:

    When Ford did introduce an oil filter it was the bypass style, which meant only a portion of the oil was filtered. Oil was delivered to the filter from a boss at the back of the block where the oil pressure gauge sender was located. From the filter oil was returned to the pan. A simple arrangement, it’s always been said that 10 percent of the engine’s oil passes through this style filter.
     
  23. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    I daresay that ALL the oil is being filtered, 10% (likely more like 20%) at a time as it passes through the pump. Kind of like a swimming pool filter, you don't have to pass all the water through it at once to have a clean swim, and there's really no separate stash of water that never gets filtered.
     
    Texas Webb likes this.
  24. Good description,Oil does get filtered.
     
  25. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,307

    squirrel
    Member

    and the amazing thing is that engines without an oil filter at all, seem to last for a while too.

    Not running an air cleaner is traditional, and so is having an engine wear out kind of quickly. You wanted to go through the engine soon anyways, to do some more work on it, maybe port it, put in a Merc crank, etc.
     
  26. So all the oil does eventually get filtered? Good to know. Sorry for the thread hijack, I've been following the air cleaner discussion as well. I know I've seen multicarb setups with scoops pointing toward the rear of the car, does that seem to help keep dust and other contaminants out of the engine?
     
  27. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Not to be a wiseguy, but since all the oil lives together in the same place, you couldn't possibly filter it separately or exclude any from filtration. The difference is that "full flow" modifications will pass most all the pumped oil through the filter medium. The end result is that the oil will be filtered faster. The downside is that as the filter clogs, the oil flow gets blocked, and if it gets fully clogged, the cartridge will either block the flow or be bypassed, depending on the system.
     
  28. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 50,307

    squirrel
    Member

    I doubt it makes much difference on the small stuff like dust. Might help keep the big insects and birds and rocks out.
     
  29. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Just look at the dirt in your engine compartment. Without filters, that stuff is coating your cylinder walls and working it's way into your motor oil.
     
  30. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 11,153

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Agreed. Haven't found good air cleaners for the two barrels. Every one effects idle and performance. I now use two layers of woman's hose and change them quite often. Gives me a reason to chase women around the garage.
     

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