Technical Questions about T-bucket handling

I have an old kit T bucket that I think was put together in the 1970s. I've never ridden in another hot rod, so I don't know what a normal ride and handling should feel like for one of these cars.

I find mine scary. It seems I can feel the frame flexing over all road irregularities, and it's a bit of work keeping the car under control.

I've driven it at about 50 mph, and don't want to go any faster than that.

I can't really put my finger on what it is about the car that feels bad, it just has a general feeling like I don't have it entirely under control. Pretty much feels like if it hit a bump or dip at the wrong angle it would end up wrapped around a tree.

I installed a brand new Corvair steering box from Flaming River and the tires are decent. I don't see anything wrong with the suspension or steering.

So is this about what I should expect from a car of this sort, with a simple frame and crude suspension, or could it be doing better? Is it reasonable to expect a car like this to cruise at 80 mph?

 

We have to have pics, several of the chassis to help. You should be able run at a 100 with no problems if all is in working order and set up correctly.

 

T Buckets are such a light and short chassis they can be twitchy. Make sure the camber and caster on the front wheels is right.
A short light car with a V8 can get out of control easily. You have to work with it on the road, not work against it. That means just guide it where you want it to go.
Definitely do not use a locked or posi rear axle.

 

I would guess a proper front end alignment would be a good place to start. It would be better if they did a 4 wheel alignment to make sure the chassis was square. If that doesn't make an improvement you need to get somebody to look at it that has knowledge of suspension. Somebody like a chassis builder, race car builder. As stated above it should be good for speeds in excess of 100 mph.

 

What type of frame? Boxed, tube.... What type suspension> buggy spring, coil over..

 

PICTURES PLEASE!!

 

Pics showing the frame from beneath so we can see crossmembers etc.

 

I don't understand where this "no posi" BS keeps coming from , I've put 42K miles on my T in the last 14yrs. WITH a lock-rite , seems just fine to me !
dave

 

Thanks for the responses, I'll try to get some photos today.

 

Also -- I put a steering dampner on the front and I can feel the difference.

 

Did installing a steering dampner affect your turning radius ?
dave

 

Nope, not in any way. We run them on everything, they make a huge difference.

As for the no posi thing, that really is not true. All of our cars are running various posi setups and no difference in handling. I think that myth came from some lockers wanting to push a light car through sharp turns a little, but it really is not a factor at all.

I hate cars built by other people because you never know what you are getting. Get us lots of very good pictures and we can better try to figure out what you have. The more pictures the better of every aspect of the front and rear suspension and frame setup too.

One time I drove a friends car home from a car show, a t bucket, and it was white knuckle time the whole trip. Worst handling car I ever drove, every bump or irregularity in the pavement steered it from side to side. I would have ripped out the entire suspension system and redid it if it were mine.

Don

 

A 'kit' T bucket from the 70's to me raises the possibility that it's never been 'right' because the problems were designed in from the start. I did say possibility though.

Tons of large, quality pics will help the eagle eyed diagnose what's going on.

Chris

 

I agree this is the first step. If the toe-in, caster, or camber are off, the car can be really squirrely. You should have this checked anyway, since you didn't build the car.

 

Five bucks says the Ackerman is off. On old T buckets, that seems to be a problem every time.

 

Running straight down the road , ackerman has little , if any , effect on stability .
dave

 

Measured against the distance my tie rod moves now , I figured I would lose between 2 1/2-3" side to side travel
dave

 

When we built my Sons T bucket, we did it with a deadline coming up so we got it done in 88 days start to finish. When he drove it the first time we found we had rushed and missed a lot of alignment issues. For example, the wheelbase was different by about 1/2 inch side to side, and the caster and toe in were off. The front axle was also slightly off compared to the rear axle, and little things like that. Once we fixed all of those issues it handled great.

Funny how little things can add up to a really bad handling car.

Don

 

It shouldn't. SoCal builds in a lot more travel into that stabilizer than you normally need. Mine does not come close to bottoming out no matter which way I turn the wheels.

Don

 

Check that the drag link (from steering arm to spindle) is parallel to ground, or as close as possible. If it runs up hill (or down), you will get some "bump steer". Unlevel drag link will push spindle out when axle bounces up and pull it back on rebound.

As stated above, get everything right, and it could handle like a slot car. Mine have, at any speed.

 

I wish I'd known you guys in 1973. I was 17 and had one. $300.00 dollar car. It was fairly nice and real cool.
I drove it all over town just thinkin I was the stuff.
Then one day I got on the freeway and took up all 4 lanes, like at once.
It was for sale before the color came back to my face.

 

as you said , you have nothing to compare it to.....but i have always felt you should be able to drive down the road a 70 mph with one hand on the wheel . no white knuckles. get everything right and it will.

 

Greasyman, If you really do have frame flex, that will be the first thing needing to be cured. It could be size and thickness of the rails, crossmembers, or how it was laid out. Then all of the alignment, and other factors will come into play.

 

That is the big question in my mind too, Marty......frames do not generally and should not flex. What makes the OP think his is doing that ? Box tubing, if that is what it was made from, is not that flexy. Is it maybe an old T frame modified ?

Lots of questions that only lots of good pictures will help clear up.


Don

 

Don,
I have built 10 track roadster chassis, basically a 100" wb T-Bucket frame. We ran them on dirt ovals and really pounded them. With early Ford wishbones, axles, etc, 85 MPH on the freeway was a breeze. I took a ride in a roadster with an aluminum frame once, WOW !!! The frame flex was beyond believable, and owner was oblivious.

 

With out photos,we're spitting into the wind gang. He already said he has no other hotrod riding to go by as for feel for the most part,he said so.,so just check off his feel,hell lots of guys that have been in a few hotrods,may of only been in poorly set up rods,we know the're more of them,then we'd like out there. I've even found guys that have been rodding for many years that still think they should all feel crapy,tell I take them for a ride or in a few cases even let them drive my own.

 

On the stabilizer not having the travel that the tie rod does, It may be that there are no steering stops bilt into the axle/spindles and the steering travels further than it actually would on a Ford I beam axle.

Without actually seeing the car in person and possibly driving it it's near impossible to give a fully accurate idea of what could be the issue and it could be a combination of small issues that turn into a big issue.
Some things that come to mind
Alignment issues as previously mentioned.
Miss matched tires front and rear.
Rear tires severely under inflated to soften ride. I've seen some guys try to run pretty low pressure in big rear tires to get the ride softer and end up with a lot of sidewall flex.
Worn out suspension or steering parts.
Frame flex due to too light of tubing or other construction issues.
Shocks that don't work as shocks should due to the way they are installed.

 

Here's a bunch of photos. As you can see, it has no crossmembers other than that flimsy thing supporting the tranny. I also have no idea how well the suspension is adjusted, the alignment, etc. If anyone can steer me to a rough guide to how to set that stuff up, I'd be very grateful.

 

It could use a center crossmember, with some diagonal legs, and a caster check.

 

From the pics the only thing that immediately gets me is the big meats on the front and the huge scrub radius. OK you can get away with that but the toe (in) has to be right. Wrong and that could easily have you being dragged all over the place by the road. Check toe in. If that doesn't help that much trty substantially skinnier front wheels / tires.

Chris