The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TINGLER, Jul 10, 2005.
they started putting roller cams in the 302 sometime in 85...that might make a difference on the gear material.
I think its a one year only deal, when puttin carbs on them roller motors.
1985 Mustang Electronic. Think stick and auto have a different curve. and will need the module to match. My friend just did a couple that way.....OLDBEET
'85 302 HO engines did indeed come with hydraulic roller cams & required a steel gear. I don't know if you'd find one in a Cougar though - I think they only came in Mustangs & Capris that year, but I could be wrong...
You can swap distributors around easily - don't let the length of the shaft bother you at all - it's inconsequential. Early dizzys will engage the oil pump drive just fine.
Run points. Run Duraspark. Run aftermarket. Run whatever...
P S about $55 exchange here.
roller lifters, not rockers.
i have a near useless reponse. trying to be helpful, i ran down to my basement and grabbed the msd sbf distro i have stashed down there (not for sale, part of an engine i'm putting together with my cousin). i checked the box and it says 289/302. it was once in a 289, so i know it works there. the distro came with a steel gear installed and a brass one loose in the box. it's my understanding that you need to run the brass one with a roller cam engine, as the steel one will chew the cam up. not positive on that one though.
bottom line, call summit racing's tech line and they'll straighten you out. i use them often for stupid questions that have nothing to do with buying a product and they've never called me any dirty names.. at least not while i'm still on the line.
I've installed a 70's duraspark into an 85 non roller cam with no problems. So since the Duraspark, and points distributor interchange, they should fit too.
If it's a roller cam when you pull the intake there will be a "spider" shaped piece of stamped metal in the valley with an arm going to each set of lifters, the lifters will be connected by a metal "H" to keep them from rotating.
You can use the roller gear from your stock dizzy on an older dizzy if the shaft size is the same.
Tingler......my son has a ranger that we did a 302 swap into, I was going to run a dual point but opted for the new GM style HEI dist that they make for sbf 260-302 engines...Its an easy hook up, one wire just like a GM.....I got his off ebay, just look up Ford HEI and you should find it....This would be your best bet next to an MSD.....Hope this helps.....If you need any pics I can snap a few of his set up....
289/302 use same exact dizzy (as does 260 too). The brass gears are required when running an aftermarket billet steel roller cam. The factory Ford roller cams found in HO engines after '85 require a steel gear. Pre-85, non-HO used cast iron gear.
Shaft sizes are all the same. If you're concerned, pick whatever dizzy you want to run & swap the gear off the original dizzy for peace of mind...
As mentioned, pull the intake to be sure you've got a roller cam. But, you can just swap the gear & be safe regardless of the cam installed in the engine...
Only thing no one has mentioned is the 302 HO engine has a different firing order then the stock 302. The dist will fit, but the engine will not run. I think the 302 HO dist rotates backward to a stocker.
I'm in the middle of doing this exact thing in an '88 5.0 HO out of a Lincoln. I spent about an hour total on the line with Summit and MSD - they both have great tech support lines. Also - if you have a local Half Price Books store, check them out when you get the chance. I found the Chilton manual for this car at mine for $5.00. It has ALL KINDS of info that you are going to need - stuff like torque specs, firing order, bolt thread and depth info, etc. Its definitely the best fiver I've spent in a long time.
Feel free to PM me if you need more help, like I said I'm right in the middle of my build, just waiting for my 1.7 rockers to arrive from the groovy brown truck.
i've been doing the junkyard version of this. i nab a duraspark dizzy, leave the duraspark box right where it is...in the donor car, stroll over th the GM section and grab a HEI module from pretty much any ol 70's gm, bolt the HEI to a piece of aluminum for a heat sink, just a couple of wires to hook up and you're set with a cheap, simple and reliable ignition!
i'm not real familiar with ford stuff, but if i recall correctly, there was the first duraspark in 75 or so, they had a small body dizzy, then i think a year or two later the wsitched to the large body dizzys with the duraspark II. i don't know if there is any functional difference, but i use the earlier one with the small body for appearance sake.
That is not a roller cam.
Hey Flat Ernie, do the Ford "303" roller cams need a steel gear or will brass do? Thanks!
btw Tingler I think you can retro fit a roller cam using all factory parts by drilling and tapping those two bosses in the valley. Then you need the spider and bolts, "H" pieces, and roller lifters from a boneyard, and of course the proper distributor gear. I like roller cams because they run so smooth, but they are expensive
The only thing that ever changed rotation is the water pump on some of the serpentine belt setups. Yes there are two fireing orders. The early one fires cylinders 1 and 5 right after one another. Some say that loads the front main bearing, and that the later one is better. As long as you have the wires routed correctly for the fireing order of your camshaft, the motor will run.
My 331 has a '89 roller block with a '76 302 Duraspark dizzy. I had the dizzy in my old '64 289. It has the smaller body like the points dizzys. I did change the gear to a steel one for the roller (thats a long story, the 289 actually ate the cam/dizzy gear- too much endplay.....). I just use a MSD 6A box to control the Duraspark. Works great.
Regular firing order 15426378--Windsor- HO 13726548 counter clockwise rotation for both.
You should have std 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order. Unless it's got a 351W cam (unlikely).
I'd use the steel gear. The brass gears won't last - they're too soft. Brass gears were meant for the strip where the engine will get torn down on a somewhat regular basis
Yes you can, but you need a special small base circle cam available from most of the major cam companies. The roller blocks have slightly taller lifter bores to prevent the lifter oil bleed hole from becoming uncovered.
1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order works for all 260/289/302 engines (except HO)
1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order was developed in '69 for the 351W & adopted for the HO. The firing order depends solely on which cam you're running. For example, before the 5.0 craze kicked off in the '90s, there were many more cams for 289/302 than 351W, so I just always got 289/302 cams & ran that firing order in my Windsors - simple - just change the plug wires on the cap.
Useless Trivia - In reality, the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order is exactly the same as SBC, but the cylinders are numbered differently & they start one cylinder different!
Tingler, looks like your questions have been covered pretty well here. The one thing I see that has gone unexplained is the 1/2" longer dist shaft. That extra length will not interfere on any 221- 302 Ford of any year. It was simply added to make the dist easier to install at the factory. You see when you drop the dist in with the longer shaft it allows you to "catch" the oil pump hex drive rod before the cam and dist teeth begin to engage. Before Ford added the extra length it was a bit tricky to drop the dizzy in if the oil pump shaft was'nt positioned just right.
BTW the roller cams are steel, not cast and require a dist gear of the proper hardness(i.e cast gear for cast cam, steel gear for steel cam). They are available through Ford Racing if you choose to run a roller cam in the future. A bronze gear is for racing only. The bronze gear being softer than the typical billet steel gear is "sacrificed" in an effort to keep the cam drive gear intact. They are intended to be replaced at certain intervals. No good for street.
Thanks for all the info, guys.
I have a 1988 Non-H.O., non roller 302 engine from a 1988 Lincoln Town Car (and most of the chassis as well) for my '51 Merc project. The Cougars, T-birds, Town Cars, Crown Vics and Grand Marquis all used the "corporate 302" from 1980-1991, (with some weird exceptions), they were carbed until 83, (except police-some had 351W's with either 2bbl's or VV's); throttle body from 1984 (I think) until late 1985, then in 1986 they went non-H.O. EFI until 1991 when the 4.6 came into play. FWIW, my late 1987 non-H.O. block does not have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump. You'll have to run an electric fuel pump to feed a carb on the 1986-up EFI engines.
Also keep in mind, if doing a swap with one of these engines...Ford changed the way the engine was balanced on or around 1982...so a flywheel from a 1978 on a 1983 engine won't work. I'm not an expert at this so don't ask for any more info. There are plenty of web sites out there that address this in great detail...
I was thinking of ditching the F.I. and going carb/Duraspark. The info in these 2 pages is invaluable. I did pick up a new (reman) dizzy for a '77-79 302 with Duraspark from eGay, and I got the the neccesary wires from a very generous person on the HAMB. All I need is the module and I think I'm good to go with my particular engine.
(Always carry a spare Duraspark Module)
I forgot to mention in my son's ranger 302 swap we took the roller cam out and put a hyd Crane cam in it.....If you use the roller cam you'll have to use a dist gear made for a roller cam...I wasn't able to locate a gear to work with the dist I had so I went with a reg cam and some hardened pushrods....The HEI works great with this......... EFI engines are set up for maual fuel pumps sp you'll have to either run a electric pump or change the cam and timing cover with a fuel pump knock out plus the ecentric on the cam.....
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