I used the stock Model A front crossmember with my spring in front set up. Yes the newer spring is about 1/4" wider but it fit in the crossmember. I did have to oval out the "U" bolt holes in the crossmember and make new "U" bolts but the spring fit. The thing you must remember is that with the axle behind the spring, the wheelbase will be shorter. This would not be good with fenders but you have addressed that. I streached my frame 5 1/2" to get a Y block in without cutting the firewall so with the 3" or so set back of the front axle, my wheelbase is alittle longer than stock. Just mock it up and see how it looks.
This is the first time I've seen a 34 up front crossmember added to an a frame like that. It may be how THIS frame was done 'back in the day' but I don't think it was at all common. The reason the box tube, channel, or spring perch would be an improvement is because it will drop the stance back down with the axle you have. You can always get it roadworthy and on the road and make changes later. Just get it safe! I'd be concerned with the twist in the rails, the strength of the rear crossmember, and the wishbones. The center X member looks like a good piece but may benefit from some tweaking if that's what's holding the frame rails in a twist. It looks like you've got most all of the right parts, you just need to do a little massaging to them.
The frame dosent look that bad, and it got some damn good weldings. A stick weld is very strong, and we used to say it's the most honest welding in the world. It will never be beautiful, but if it appears good, it's good. If it looks bad, it's bad. It will never look like a modern day TIG weld like @el polako puts them down, but almost nothing will look that good! But from pictures, judge from half way around the world welds, don't look bad, it's the Finnish that lacks. But I would be able to fix it, to a standard where I dare drive it. And so should you! I would do some cleaning around the rear frame part, remove the small things with a cut off wheel, pretty it up with a flap disc. Cutting up a piece of big diameter pipe, put it between the rails through the rear most holes in the x-member, put it in the half hole, weld it up, do a c notch over the torque tube and make gussets between the rear cross member and the new tube. If that makes any sense? And fix the half inch kink in the rail, sand blast and paint it and be the happy owner of a survivor! They don't come around often. I would even think about keeping the extra cross member, just because I'm not man enough to cut up a survivor! Look at this: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/snoopy-model-a-hot-rod-survivor.942245/ This is a piece of art and a time capsule, that WILL se a lot of action.
That car is amazing ! I've been reading the story along with everyone else. Such an incredible find and story to go along with it. I instantly subscribed to it.
Okay guys. Here's my frame update. According to the diagram These are to be the measurements I "should" have. Here's what I actually have. Drivers side front mount to middle frame rail mount on pass side center to center 60.5" Pass side front mount to middle frame rail mount on drivers side center to center 61.0" Drivers side front mount to back frame rail mount on pass side center to center 107.5" Pass side front mount to back frame rail mount on drivers side center to center 108.0 Drivers side Middle frame rail mount to rear frame rail mount on pass side 59" Pass side middle frame rail mount to rear frame rail mount on drivers side 59" You can see the issues are from the middle mount hole forwards. Then there is this diagram that shows the width measurements I "should" have What I actually have Front horn width (outside width) 24.5" Middle of the frame rail (outside width) (Bottom of rail 31" top of rail 30") Rear member width measurements Are exactly what they should be. Frame rails in front of the crossmember 39.5" Mount holes 40.5" Overall width of the rear crossmember 42.75" I also took these photos to show the "twist" as I called it in the center portion of the frame rails. The frame is dead level and the square is plumb according to the level bubble This is what I've got Pass side Drivers side. Looking at my options before I make any decisions on moving forward with this frame .
This picture is more accurate I took two because I moved the first time (the 1st pic of the pass side)
I would try fixing the kink in the frame, and fix up the rear crossmember. The rest ain't that bad, because there are frames that are even worse out and driving on the road. Measurement more out of wag the 1/2 inch, I would fix. Less then that would I leave alone, and just make sure that the alignments of wheels/hubs/axels/track are with in best possible tolerances. And I'm thinking about, if it was my frame, I would weld them with a stick too. An ESAB 53.05 should be a damn good electrode, if you keep it warm. There is a book where you can translate ESAB numbers to Lincoln or miller products. Put the pipe so fare true the x member, and cut them at an angle and put a plate over the end and run it up on the rail. I know I'm a nutter, but I do it my way, and I can stick weld it. This week I'm at a course in visual inspection of welding, would you mind if I showed it to my class to ask what they think?
I can take additional pictures of certain areas if you would like. Let me know. Thank you for all your input on the chassis.
Much apprisiated. Close up of the welds and og the back side is available. Send to my mail. It's my username, it's a hotmail account and it com.
Ok, I think the twist is from the plates that are acting as your center crossmembers. I suspect that if you grind those welds out from the rails, your top rail will be able to come in line with the bottom of the rail again. It looks like they are tacked to the X member; I'd leave them connected to do this unless I was damn sure they would need to be removed completely or replaced with something else like a sectioned stock center crossmember. If it does, weld those plates back in once you get it squared back up (if they will fit).
I have looked at it closely a few times and it appears they intended to squeeze the top of the rail in for whatever reason. Both top sides are exactly 1/2" in and there is plenty of stock past the weld on both plates on both sides (tucked under the top rail ) to weld to if I were to put the top rails back in square. I intend on leaving the plates welded to the X member because they look really good and see no reason to change them. The real sketchy welds are at the 4 corners of the X member at the frame so I'll address those after I get the twist out of the frame. Other than that it comes down to cleaning up the ream crossmember and sending it out to the blaster. I'll post pictures as I go. Thank you for helping solidify my decision.
The welds on the tops of the X member look fine, but the underside raises an eyebrow. I'd have trouble leaving that alone. I think I'd need to fabricate some pieces to clean that up personally. I am not sure I know what's going on there of if that janky looking piece is providing any structure. As for your rear crossmember, I think I'd be inclined to add a gusset from the top rail to it. I don't think those stick welds are going anywhere but a gusset would provide some structure it's missing with the way it was flame cut or stick blasted out. I'd add at least one to each side. You could also go so far as to square up the ends and make a plate to close the ends in and extend out onto the rail to tie the back of the crossmember in. From that you could run a horizontal gusset back in to mirror the stock brackets that it's now welded to the top of. I think this is how I'd do it.
Exactly what you said about the X member were my thoughts. The tops look great but the underside is where the issues lie. The gussets at the rear member are a great idea and are definitely the way I'm going to go about it. I'm curious as to the program you used to add the red "pencil" lines. I need to get one to help illustrate the pics as I go.
I just pulled it into Adobe Illustrator because I had it open. It's what I use at work (ain't cheap). Get some poster board and start making templates to mock it up.
I snapped some pictures of the back of a Model A rail I've got for reference. I figured it might help getting a good look at how the rear crossmember was attached at the factory. 7 rivets.
Wow, that's what it's supposed to look like huh. I wish the rear section on my frame was that clean. Thank you for the reference pics. I'm hopefully pushing it into the garage tonight or tomorrow am put it on stands and start breaking it down.
That's what it looks like with the crossmember removed entirely. I'd be cautious about breaking it down too much. Go slow and don't take too much off. Stop and think before and after each thing that comes off.
Nice pics, is that a rusted Chevy frame? You (OP) could do a plate like the one that Patmanta surgested, and elongated the plate, with a gentle sweap up to the rear cross member and do an end plate on the cross member, that slopes down to the rail and a plate on top, just to make it look good between the outer and the inner plate. My "pipe dream" be a little stupid, compared to Patmanta a Ideer.
Don't go cutting on that rear crossmember; not unless you plan to replace it and have welded a brace back there to keep the frame from going out of square. Do you have a welder and welding experience @Mikel50 ? I sketched up what I think the bracket to reinforce the rear crossmember should look like. I'm not sure if my redline and description really conveyed it (the holes are just a suggestion).
Ya I'm just going to drop off the suspension and start cleaning things up. I have all my measurements if I need to check them, even though they're off. I won't start cutting things until I have other things gusseted or supported. I've done a few non hotrod builds over the years so I've got some experience under my belt.
Okay but is that two sides of the same item? Or two items, and the upper one goes on like the one from the post 74 pic And the lower one goes on with the small hole centered in the the big one, and welded all the way around? Because it should be possible to do a plate with a big hole that is centered over the big hole (on the x), and all the way up to rear cross member and has a top edge there raises 30*(ish) and goes to the cross member. Than make a plate like yours, that closes the end of the crossmember, and goes 30* down and ends up flat on the rail. And then you set a flat and square plate over the gap. And weld it on all four sides. Nice and flat, and easy to adapt to the body. Can you paint that in the pic, with red lines and some solid color?
That is a side and top view of one piece. Ignore the holes, they're not part of the function. This is just a simple plate that would box up the open ends of the cut crossmember and connect it better to the remaining crossmember and to the frame.
I have no intentions of removing either crossmember at this point. I'm going to clean up the areas at the ends of the cross member where they're cut with a torch so I can start with some straight metal to weld my plates and gussets where needed Yes I own a Hobart140 in my garage for small stuff and have a miller bobcat at my disposal when needed. I have several years of welding experience working on cars and jeeps and motorcycle builds over the past 20 years. I'm not going to rush anything on this project , I never do. I am in no rush to drive this car and had anticipated a year plus build from the start. If I have any questions (which I know I will) I'll ask the experts.
Good deal! You're gonna be fine then. I don't think it's going to take a whole lot to get that car together; you scored good!
Thanks man. It was great meeting you and getting to talk to everyone for a bit. Hopefully there will be more garage nights from here on out. I appreciate the advice and title info you gave me. I'm already working on it. My build is about to get a bit more interesting and a huge jump start! I'm headed at this moment to pick up a model a frame that has been in storage in a dry basement for 35 years. W a 4" mor drop axle, F1 steering box, and 4 link rear setup. Plus a bunch of parts that go w it.
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