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Hot Rods PPG Shopline Urethane...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Fortunateson, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    I was going to paint my OT project and looked around the HAMB regarding the Shopline brand. I figured the comments were 50:50 so I took the plunge. Paint vendor suggested grey sealer for my darkish blue colour as to aid in knowing if it was covering OK.

    Years ago I painted with Centari and another brand I can't recall. Those paints covered really well. The Shopline looked like candy colour to me. It eventually covered but bugger... took four coats. Very shiny and will sand and buff. I suppose I should have used black sealer as was my initial intention.

    For future reference does anyone market a hobbyist level paint that actually covers in two coats? Anything around like the beloved Centari? Right now the borders are closed so ordering out of the States is really a no-go, maybe in the future...
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  2. House paint.
     
  3. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Haha. Now satin, semi gloss, eggshell,...? Are all of today's AUTOMOTIVE paints all so translucent?
     
  4. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 668

    patterg2003

    I liked the Centari then found the PPG Ditzler Delstar acrylic enamel w/ hardener. It was possible to do a great paint job that came off smooth and glossy that made me look like I knew what I was doing. We recently painted an airplane with the waterborne urethanes and that took some reading with some Youtube time before tackling that. The urethane is like glass but it is a miserable product compared to the old stuff. I guess I have to adapt to whats around like it or not.

    The good paints have all disappeared which is unfortunate. The urethanes may be better for the environment but they are not good for the painter. They are as toxic or more toxic so one needs to really use all the proper safety measures or it will bite a person. Crossing the border is a lost option that I miss as well but travel anywhere has gotten so weird these days.
     
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  5. Not exactly sure where your "hobbyist" price point is when it comes to quality automotive paint. I sprayed my car with S-W Genesis M single stage urethane and it covered in two coats. (lime green paint over grey primer). About $350 a gallon with hardener. Then sprayed misc. parts for the car with Martin Senor finish one ATX single stage in two coats (black over grey primer) About $200 a gallon (paint + reducer + hardener). While both laid down well with good shine, I liked the cheaper ATX better. If price is the main concern, I have heard decent things about Eastwood's line of paints at about $125 a gallon. Oh, I miss lacquer.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Try BASF--- Limco line of urethane. GR8 stuff.
    Been using for over 15 years with no complaints
     
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  7. luckythirteenagogo
    Joined: Dec 28, 2012
    Posts: 1,265

    luckythirteenagogo
    Member

    I've never used Eastwood paint, but I know some guys who have. They both said the paint is like water and needs a lot of coats to cover. I guess that's why it's cheap.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  8. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    So educate me on the differences between acrylic enamel , which I think what Centari was, and urethane.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  9. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    My hobbyist price point is in line with yours. I'm not interested in spending $800+ for paint on my projects. I'm really just interested in a good paint that covers well the I can cut and polish if need be. And I've only painted a three cars with SS which came out nice so I'll be sticking with SS.
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.

  10. You don't say which Shopline paint system you used. Was it the single stage or base/clear? I work for that paint company as a training instructor, and I can tell you that within the brand there is no "in between" price point. You are either in the Value level (Shopline/Omni) or in Premium (Deltron/Concept/Envirobase). The issue comes down to the content of solids and paint/toners vs balancer/binder in a given can. With the Value lines it costs much less, but takes many more coats to cover/hide. jump uo to Premium and cost goes up but get better color match and coverage. Its a time vs money thing.

    For anyone using Shopline base/clear I would suggest using their Plus base coat system. It has better color match, pearls and coverage for a very small jump in price.
     
  11. 1time
    Joined: Dec 5, 2009
    Posts: 88

    1time
    Member
    from minnesota

    Check into PPG'S Delfleet line, single stage, lays like glass an super easy to spray
     
  12. Wrench97
    Joined: Jan 29, 2020
    Posts: 323

    Wrench97

    Which color it is has a lot to do with coverage, I found out a while back that Omaha Orange for example would cover gray primer in 2 coats be it Dupont Centari, Imron or Sherwin Williams Sunfire while Swamp Holly Orange will take 5 or 6 coats...........
     
  13. VOODOO ROD & CUSTOM
    Joined: Dec 27, 2009
    Posts: 1,236

    VOODOO ROD & CUSTOM
    Member

    I agree with PPG Delfleet Essentials. It is like the old Imron but at a fair price.

    Good luck,
    VR&C.
     
  14. paul55
    Joined: Dec 1, 2010
    Posts: 3,381

    paul55
    Member
    from michigan

    Imron was almost impossible to sand and rub...I've done a few. Delfleet is way more workable.
     
    belair likes this.
  15. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    So there is no one willing to educate me on the pros and cons between acrylic enamel and urethane paint? Oh the humanity!
     
  16. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 5,712

    Budget36
    Member

    Used to be a member @Paint Guru who could tell you, but I haven’t seen him post in a long time. He had a few threads going talking about different paint types, if you search for his posts you’ll find them
     
    belair likes this.
  17. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    PaintGuru was an excellent teacher for us "once in awhile" painters. I sure wish he was on here more frequently.

    Anyone else?
     
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  18. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Single stage.
     
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  19. 1time
    Joined: Dec 5, 2009
    Posts: 88

    1time
    Member
    from minnesota

    I started painting cars in the late eighties so just at the end of the enamel era , I sprayed a lot of enamel back then an generally never added a hardener it was available as i recall but not a necessity, what i remember about enamel was that it was very gooey an took for ever to dry sometimes even a couple days, if you had a time line an you needed it to be dry you could put it out in the sun for a while an let it get hot then take a hose with cold water to it an it would lock up instantly, you could never get it to lay out real nice without at least a couple sags here an there however in time that made you become that much better of a painter because you really had to watch what you were doing, with metallic colors pretty much what you saw when you were done spraying was what you got there was no cutting an buffing, most of the time you could get them to look pretty decent but no where near what we call decent by today's standards, With a modern urethane catalyst or hardener is a necessity without it the paint will never dry, single stage urethane color needs no clear coat to make it shine or stand up to the elements, it will dry quickly between coats during the actual paint process so you can lay it smoother an heavier so to speak, if you get the air pressure right an you have a good gun technique you can lay it out beautifully an if need be you can cut an buff the next day in some cases you better buff it the next day before it gets so hard you cant hardly buff it back, Now base coat clear is a whole other animal, the color coat needs only reducer to dry an dries in minutes you can tack cloth in between coats to remove any dirt and lay out metalics perfectly, when your done with your color a couple coats of clear for shine an protection an your done the clear will dry over night an you can cut an buff the next day, I know a lot of do it your selfers are afraid of clear coats but if you think of clear as only un pigmented paint meaning it has no color to it it is exactly the same as spraying single stage color, trust me you can do it an when you do you will never go back to single stage, I hope this helps an if i can try to explain or help with anything else i sure will
     
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  20. Damn. That was the longest sentence I ever tried to read.
     
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  21. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Thanks a lot for this. You're right about us once in awhile painters being a bit intimidated by be/cc. Maybe one day. Main reason I probably wouldn't use it is that the ones I've seen look too modern/hyper shiny and I prefer a more traditional look. My first car that I painted I used Centari in a gun metal metallic. Only had one tiny run which pretty well disappeared after shaving it off, a little sanding and polish. I guess I was lucky. I avoided tiger stripes by turning my application ninety degrees on the second coat and back on the third coat. Many compliments and from a couple of body men who asked where I took my car to be painted.
     
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  22. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Here's another question... can Omni reducers and hardener be used with Shopline SS urethane?
     
  23. 54chevkiwi
    Joined: Jun 28, 2020
    Posts: 124

    54chevkiwi

    Yea...... if you want anything thats gonna cover in less than a million coats, even with the correct SG0x groundcoat.. do not use shopline colours. “ohh but theyre so much cheaper than deltron”
    “By the tin yes.. but is it reeeealy..? Is it reeeealy when youve bought two mkre tins to try get coverage, have insane film build and tape bridging, have bleed through on the adjacent panels because youre also too cheap for high gsm paper and double masking .... and STILL dont have coverage”
    “......”
    “Thats what i thought”

    so in conclusion.. often times the more expensive option on the outset often ends up being cheaper in time and money in the long run, ppg deltron is no exception. the NON false economy paint.
    And i mean, generally the “expensive” option across all brands.
    Lol.
    Thats my professional experience and opinion.
     
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  24. 54chevkiwi
    Joined: Jun 28, 2020
    Posts: 124

    54chevkiwi

    i go along with that too, shiny paint doesnt look right to me on especially 50s car restos, i personally prefer catalysed basecoat only, like on mine ... and i prefer that to a satin or matt clear to achieve the same sheen, that dont look “right” to me either
     
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  25. 54chevkiwi
    Joined: Jun 28, 2020
    Posts: 124

    54chevkiwi

    Heres one..
    I worked for a guy once who was trying to put shopline dark blue over his shopline grey primer surfacer spot repairs, got up to 5 coats and it was still grinning through. I mixed up some nearly black basecoat for him to use as a groundcoat, told him to use that, he cringed, i told him to just effin use it and walked off..
    He came back all excited that it worked. But you know what did i know with 20 years trained experience and qualifications over his 25 years self taught :rolleyes:

    Id use a maybe 2 parts black one part white groundcoat under dark blues and under reds, red pearls especially with shopline.. so thats another product you need which elevates the “cheap” shopline price..

    Same guy packed a patty when the same thing happened on a red jeep, i tried to tell him 2 quarts red shopline and no groundcoat wouldnt do it ... he got upset that i was right on that one too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  26. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,392

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    I've never had a customer come in and tell me, "I'd like my car to look nice, but not too nice". That's a new one on me.
     
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  27. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    The false economy really jumped at me. To do an OT LBC between 4-5 quarts of Shopline. Perhaps with better quality paint 3 quarts?
     
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  28. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,769

    Fortunateson
    Member

    No thoughts on the matter guys?
     
  29. The reducers are the same from Omni to Shopline, and most of the hardeners are as well. But you would need to know which ones are the same as the part numbers are different.

    As stated above by others. While the Deltron DCC single stage is going to cost you more money over the counter, it will get better coverage and use far less paint. One quart of DCC with two coat coverage would be comparable to two quarts (or more) of the Omni/Shopline and 6 coats. Plus by going with the DCC you will have a paint system that will be far superior and last much much longer.

    I know paint has gotten stupid expensive. But this is also something that you shouldn't want to go cheap on. Do it once and have it last for many many years, or do it on the cheap and have to redo it at some point. Just my 2 cents anyway.
     
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  30. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,637

    belair
    Member

    I will second what was said about BC/CC. The base coat is like lacquer, in that if you mess up, just wait a second, sand/smooth/fix it, blow some more color on, keep going. Almost the same with the clear. I did a BC/CC after 4 or 5 SS jobs, was very intimidated, came out like gangbusters. If you want it to really shine, BC/CC is the easy way to go.
     
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