Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Poly engine ID

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Thommyknocker, May 2, 2015.

  1. I fully blame you guys!
    I've aquired another poly and it's all your fault! At least that's what I told my wife

    See latest post below

    Ive aquired the pictured engine. Please forgive my ignorance, I haven't looked to closely at Chrysler stuff so far.

    Best ID I got was mid 50s poly sphere.
    It's got spitfire on the valve covers

    Drivers side front of the block, just below the head is 6-6-552 stamped "lightly"

    Thanks for the help

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1430589815.734882.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1430589843.120269.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  2. Also, how does the torque converter come off?

    Trying to get it on a stand
     
  3. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,901

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    '55 Windsor 301" ...
     
    Thommyknocker likes this.
  4. VonWegener
    Joined: Nov 19, 2009
    Posts: 786

    VonWegener
    Member

    That is an interesting engine. Chryslers from that era were modular with a LOT of interchangeable parts between engine and dimensions even shared by other Chrysler products. Guys are racing these Windsor Polys at Bonneville with Hemi heads. Get a set of 331/354 Chrysler Hemi heads and build a unique street engine.
     

  5. 35desoto
    Joined: Oct 6, 2009
    Posts: 770

    35desoto
    Member

    Yes its a Chrysler based poly engine - the torque convertor comes off by undoing 8 nuts that you will find up between the crankshaft and the engine block. They are not the easiest to get off and the spanner you use needs to be slim to get into the space - there isn't much. The torque convertor has eight studs that mount forward through the holes in the end of the crankshaft billet. while there are some parts that interchange Chryslers are unique to Chryslers and not a Dodge or Desoto of a similar age. Regardless they are an impressive engine and produce good useable horsepower and torque - a good street engine
     
  6. Thanks,
    got the torque converter off, and it's on a stand.

    Probably a 301 I'm guessing.
    Damn it's heavy lol
     
  7. We got it pushed into the corner of the shop and my son and I were picking up tools.

    "We have to find another project for this engine dad"

     
  8. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,582

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Don't under rate the Chrysler Poly. It is a close relative to the hemi and will match the hemi in power up to 80 MPH or so.

    And it has a unique look that could cause some head scratching in an open engine compartment roadster or coupe.

    The same 4 barrel intake used on the 53 - 56 Chrysler hemi will fit. Or any early hemi intake. Before 1957.

    The 301 can be bored to 331 size and use stock 331 pistons (cheaper than oversize pistons).
     
    Thommyknocker likes this.
  9. I'm doing more research, so I'd like to bounce a few questions past you guys.

    It appears to be a powerflite 2 speed "auto" bellhousing. There had to be a manual option available..maybe trucks?
    Which way does the distributor turn when it's running? With this I can try to bench start it and see if it lives still.
     
  10. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,582

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Look at the vacuum advance, they always point in the direction of rotation.

    That engine may have been used in large Dodge trucks (like dump trucks) but not in half ton size. Any manual trans would not be suited to a car. They did not offer a manual trans in a car with that engine. Possible exception, 1956 Dodge D500 special racing model with Chrysler hemi engine, good luck finding one.

    You may be able to jimmy up something using the stock bellhousing, doesn't it detach from the auto trans? The flywheel and clutch from a 318 may fit but can't swear to it.

    A hemi bellhousing will fit if you feel like springing for an aftermarket job.
     
  11. Dang! That's a great idea about the vacuum advance, I never thought of it that way.
    Clockwise it is
    Thanks
     
  12. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,582

    73RR
    Member

    Check the ID code at the top-front of the block in front of the valley cover and quit guessing.

    51-54 intake has the t-stat incorporated, 55-58 do not. Hemi intakes interchange with the Spitfire.
    Over boring something like a 301 just to use low compression 331 pistons is probably the worst idea to offer. Custom forgings are not that expensive!


    Spitfire engines were never used in any Dodge truck.
    Use what stock bellhousing? He has a PF bell attached.
    All manual bell housings for pre-62 Hemi, Hemi based poly (like this) and the A engines interchange. Some old-timey manual bells will use the starter mounting plate shown in the photos or just use a block adapter and a late oem bell works nicely.
    The post-62 flywheels DO NOT INTERCHANGE. Pre-62 cranks had 8-bolts; post-61 have 6-bolts on a smaller bolt circle.



    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/hemi-tech-index.118764/
    Start reading




    .
     
    Thommyknocker and Hnstray like this.
  13. osut362 likes this.
  14. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,582

    73RR
    Member

    Excellent engine in its oem configuration. At 301 cubic inch I would NOT recommend using Hemi heads; the ports are nearly too damn big for a daily driver. Bonneville? different story...;)
    If you are thinking of using it for a street rod/DD type package then the 8:1 c/r is tolerable. If you really need more power then forged pistons in the 9-9½ range would be a good addition and IMHO worth about 50hp. It should not be difficult to get to 300hp with the right pile-o-parts.

    .
     
    Thommyknocker likes this.
  15. I agree, maybe not on piston choice but that is just a personal thing for me, what Rusty suggests is doable if you have a line on pistons.

    Poly mills are way underestimated in their potential and are en excellent choice for a hot rod mill. In a light bodied car they will more than surprise most of us in stock trim and speed parts are available for them if someone is a mind to look for them. besides thy have cool rocker covers. ;)
     
  16. Thank you very much for the link 73RR
    I stayed up late last night reading, I've definitely got more research to do.

    Edit, and find a project to put it in lol
     
  17. A 32 dodge coupe would work really well for that. or any number of other desirable cars.LOL
     
  18. I will be running a 354 poly in my 30' Chrysler coupe project. I also have a 301 poly but found the 354 which was running when I got it. The 301 needs to much work, may save it for another project. I chose to run the poly over a hemi because you just don't see them in Hot Rods!
     
    73RR likes this.
  19. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,582

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    They made poly V8s for Chrysler Windsor in 3 sizes. 301, 331 and 354. You could use stock 331 pistons in a 301 + 3/16 overbore: and 354 pistons in a 331 + 1/8 overbore.

    I don't know what you mean about low compression. They came with 8:1 (1955) 8.5 or 9.0:1 (1956) and 9.25:1 (1957) and 10:1 (1958).
     
  20. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,439

    George
    Member

    Don't know why people encourage max overbores, but can probably be done with a sonic check. Think he was referring to the '55 331 hemi rated @ 8.5, but the advertised OEM C/R is often on the optimistic side on early Hemis, might apply to the poly & other engines
     
  21. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member

    I would be very reluctant to bore any engine 3/16 over. I know people did it to plenty of flathead Fords. But those blocks were a lot newer then. IMHO for the street the poly engine is plenty fine without going to hemi heads. 331 blocks are not all that hard to find if you want a 331 hemi. If I had the poly would run it. Now what happened to the letters?
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  22. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,582

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    It was only a suggestion.

    But it truly is an old time speed secret. When Detroit was building bigger engines every year, in many cases you could bore your engine to the stock size of a later engine and use stock size pistons which are cheaper than oversize.

    Furthermore, engine blocks were a lot thicker and heavier before thinwall castings came in about 1962 - 65. Older engines were made in such a way that they could be rebuilt several times during their working life. Eventually they figured out that their engines lasted so long this was hardly ever necessary anymore, and this combined with thinwall castings led to engines that can only be bored .060 or in some cases .030.

    Most engines from the fifties can be bored at least 1/8 and some Olds blocks 1/4".
     
  23. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member

    Yes I had a 331 that I bored to 354. But that was 50 years ago. The water jackets have had a long time to corrode since then. The few extra cubic inches aren't really going to be noticeable. And there is a chance that at 3/16 over your cylinder walls will be pretty flexy and not seal to the rings to well. That's why i stopped boring my GMC engines to 320 and settled for 311. Ring seal was much better.
     
    30dodgeboy, Hnstray and 73RR like this.
  24. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member

    NS-SanGabe.jpg If you guys are really into 300 inch Chryslers, you have heard of Gary Cagle. His son is on here as FuelRoadster. He might have something to tell you if you ask. Or maybe not.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
    30dodgeboy likes this.
  25. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,439

    George
    Member

    witch is out the window if bored to the next std size...
     
  26. I've been doubling up on my research as you've suggested, thank you very much 73RR but I'm still slightly fuzzy on details

    I have a line on 2 different transmissions for this engine.
    The first is a Torqueflite from a 1960 Plymouth. The poke-a-button stuff is gone but the trans is there.
    The second is a 3 speed manual (preferred) from a 1955 Plymouth Savoy (IIRC) with a 6 cyl

    Did Mom Mopar share patterns across all their engines?

    I found a project for this engine btw, a '26 T. I will start a build thread after I get my teardrop finished (one project at a time, but I can gather parts LOL)
    Thanks
     
  27. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member

    The bellhousing to block bolt pattern is very different on the 6 cylinder and the V8. Torqueflits that I remember had a factory aluminum adapter/starter mount between them and the block. Been several years though. I do have a Lakewood blow shield for a SBC that I redrilled to bolt to a first gen hemi with an aluminum plate. It also has an aluminum flywheel and starter to fit. It used either Chevy or Ford stick transmissions. i have used it with a Saginaw 4 speed and a Top Loader Ford. It is for sale. PM for info if interested.
     
    Thommyknocker likes this.
  28. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,582

    73RR
    Member

    The are a couple applications where MaMopar had both the L6 and the V8 block bolt patterns in/on the same bellhousing. These are usually in the 57-60 years.
    For me, the 3-spd trans from a 55 Ply is not something that I would use in a street rod unless I really wanted an odd-ball......this is not something that you will easily get a shifter for.
    The 1960 TF (A engine V8 ???) is an ok trans and with the different starter mounting plates you can fit it to an earlier engine. If it is L6 or B-RB then a different bellhousing is required.

    If you can find the proper 57-60 oem bellhousing then an A-833 is a pretty simply swap or buy a block adapter and use a late LA alum bell.
     
    Thommyknocker likes this.
  29. I hate looking up old threads only to be left hanging with no resolution.

    Not this time thanks to Mr. Fox!

    [​IMG]

    Actual race car parts
    Thanks
    Thom


    Sent from my iPod touch using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    302GMC and kidcampbell71 like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.