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Technical Panhard Bar Question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by atch, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 4,530

    atch
    Member

    I don't have any projects that will use/need a panhard bar. I just got to thinking about this while perusing other threads.

    As far as I know every panhard bar I've ever seen goes from one frame rail to the center of the rear end. Have you ever seen (or thought of using) a panhard bar that goes from one side of the frame to the other side of the rear housing, at or near the other spring mounting point?

    I ask because the arc would be fewer degrees and the side-to-side motion of the rear would be even less than if mounted to the center of the rear.

    Is it a moot point because the side-to-side motion of the arc is just not enough to worry about?
     
    Dino 64 likes this.
  2. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,781

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You are correct, the longer the bar, the better, I make mine full length, although in a hot rod with limited suspension travel, it don't make a lot of difference.
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  3. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,959

    Fordors
    Member

    I have one like you describe on my coupe. When I built the chassis in the mid-'70's I put a '64 Chevy rear end under it and made the bar as long as I could, and for the reasons you describe.
    The 9" rear with the bolt on pinion support made the short bar pretty much a no brainer and like trollst said they likely work just as well.
     
  4. kbgreen
    Joined: Jan 12, 2014
    Posts: 337

    kbgreen
    Member

    The motion of the panhard bar will cause a lateral (side to side) displacement between the axle and framebody. The longer the radius or length of the panhard bar the smaller the lateral displacement. I've made a crude diagram to illustrate that. Hope this helps. Panhard bar.jpg
     
    dana barlow likes this.

  5. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 4,035

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    In race cars,sports or oval an off road it matters. In a hotrod with maybe 3in. of movemint it's find to be around a foot or so. If you have the room to run a long bar its a little better,yet you'll never feel it,if ya only have a few in. up n down anyway. Try to have bar level to ground,not like some drawing at angle.
     
  6. models916
    Joined: Apr 19, 2012
    Posts: 380

    models916
    Member

    58-64 full size chevy has it
     
  7. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,167

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Bottom line:
    1) TRY TO MAKE THE PANARD BAR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

    2) MAKE THE PANARD BAR AS CLOSE TO PARALLEL TO THE GROUND AT RIDE HEIGHT AS POSSIBLE.

    If you want ZERO translational chassis movement when the suspension cycles consider a WATTS linkage. This may be the best solution for "road course" handling characteristics, if that is a priority for you.
     
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,847

    alchemy
    Member

    When Henry Ford first installed panhard bars (around 1946ish) he made them as long as he could.
     
  9. My buddy has a short one on his Roadster. Frame to Axle center. Every time he hits a bump you can see the body/frame dart one way or the other. Rear end does not move body and chassis does.
     
    Dean Lowe likes this.
  10. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    I think the short ones are mostly aftermarket, designed to go where there are already some bolts...look at the ones made for '28-34 Ford fronts, 9" rear ends. OEMs tend to be long, finicky racers go long or use tricky designs that nearly eliminate undesirable motion. With long ones and normal suspension travel, lateral motion is pretty much theoretical.
     
  11. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,758

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Not traditional but an example nonetheless.

    IMG_20170228_100409.jpg
     
    biggeorge, Chavezk21 and dana barlow like this.
  12. I try to build them as long as possible and level when the car is at ride height. Many will disagree with that but it works for me.
     
  13. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    you won't hear a disagreement from me... that's the correct way to do it.
     
    clem likes this.
  14. Cosmo50
    Joined: Sep 8, 2011
    Posts: 214

    Cosmo50
    Member
    from California

    Or you could go the complicated way and do a watts link setup.
    0601sr_15_zhot_rod_rearend_zps7371b4e9.jpg
     
  15. AndersF
    Joined: Feb 16, 2013
    Posts: 713

    AndersF
    Member

    This is how i made mine.
    To clear the axle i mounted it in a angle in front of the axle.
    Should work just fine.
    [​IMG]
     
    Chavezk21 likes this.
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,627

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am all about Watt's links these days.
     
  17. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 2,055

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    atch -

    You are correct...in ANY car, they need the longest bar that can be squeezed in. Unless you like the tires rubbing on the inner fenders, the body swaying to and fro...
    Much of the reason for the short bars is space. In that case, like two of my cars, I run a wishbone device, which I have in my 54 Stude Wagon with a Quick-Change and my hot rod 60 Lark with the 9" in the back. No arch's to be concerned with, always centered.
    There's a couple others that keep things centered also.

    Mike
     
  18. This is my solution, long and low mounted. Works perfectly ! chassi.jpg
     
    Andy, biggeorge, 34toddster and 3 others like this.
  19. Exactly right Fuzzy. I first ran a TCI panhard set up on the rear of me RPU. It did just what you described. A very unsettling feeling. I lengthened the bar and made a mount on the 4 bar attachment on the opposite side of the frame mount. A complete change. Now 60mph bumps through a large curve are not worry some anymore. No unwanted lane changes.
     
    Andy likes this.
  20. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    Panhard bars also set the roll center so don't just mount them where where they fit easily vertically.. there are other things to consider to make sure that it handles well

    Sent from my SM-G920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Andy and Ned Ludd like this.
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,627

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Handling? Roll center? That's crazy-talk for most hot rodders. ;)
     
    grumpy65, Just Gary and Ned Ludd like this.
  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,758

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Like 1-800.
    Universal bolt-on kit.
    No modifications.
    No holes to drill, uses existing holes.
    Shipping included.
    Six months same as cash.
    Hello, is this The Hoffman Group.
     
  23. torquearm22 (2).jpg

    torquearm20 (2).jpg
    Check, and check! Bit of extra work to find the sweet spot where there is clearance thru' full suspension travel, but on a low car running skirts the least sideways movement the better.

    Bear:)
     
    JOYFLEA, mgtstumpy, mkebaird and 6 others like this.
  24. Fitnessguy
    Joined: Sep 28, 2015
    Posts: 1,426

    Fitnessguy
    Member

    mgtstumpy and Just Gary like this.
  25. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,070

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  26. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,790

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    So... mount the panhard bar as low / level as possible? Gary
     
  27. Find a Buick , pre '62. Check them out. Probably others that had coil spring rear suspension.

    Ben
     
    biggeorge likes this.
  28. The reason the pitman should be as low as possible is to lower the rear roll center.
    Pictures show better than words: :cool:
    rear_suspension_design+panhard_bar.jpg roll axis.png
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,627

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you are obstinate, diligent, and have the right combination of parts, it is possible to have at least a front (IFS) roll center that is below ground.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
    Just Gary likes this.
  30. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    I believe LOW roll center allows MORE roll for a given lateral input. That has some uses in things like dirt track cars, but seems to me high is more generally desirable. Did you know that the roll center in a 1953 Chevrolet has a Chinese part number?
     

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