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Paintjob went wrong - Need advice - Pic Heavy

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ctfortner, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. Kyron
    Joined: Dec 28, 2006
    Posts: 117

    from Peoria Az

    The good new is that years from now, you will look at the car and remember that YOU fixed/painted it.

    Think of the money lost as a vacation you didnt take
  2. Well, here's the fault in your argument--- CT had the yard guy sign a paper saying he would mow the grass, blow the sidewalks and driveway, and pick up the clippings. What he got was a yard mowed with wobbling blades...the clippings weren't picked up, and the driveway was swept with a broom. The "contract" covered what was to be done in no uncertain terms. It's not about the price, and even the quality is a secondary concern---the primary beef is what was promised on paper wasn't delivered. That's what I'm defending. ;) (disclaimer--I didn't go to law school, but I have stayed @ a Holiday Inn on occasion:p) Granted, the price CT paid was questionably low(if you have high expectations)...but hey, some guys work cheap for various reasons. I know this because I've done it. Not smart, but who the heck gets it right every time? :)
  3. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    from West TN

    Man you beat me to it. I was basically going to say the same thing. I definitely didnt go lowest bid because there was 2 guys I talk to that do body work for real shops and was willing to do on the side cheaper than I paid. Hell even one guy in his 30's works for his dad at his DADS shop that he has owned for 30 years and he has worked there high school. He rents a garage down the street for side work because his dad wont let him have the shop for side work on off hours, and he was going to do it cheaper. Anyway, wasnt about cheapest price, it was seeing other work he had done, talking to other satisfied customers in person driving cars he restored, and him making me feel good about what he was going to do and agreeing to put in ALL in writing without a problem. And he has a real business and license so if I had problems (like this) I wouldnt be fighting with a "side job" guy.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  4. I'm glad to see you're working on it and thrilled to see you're not going to try to get him to fix it because you'd only be sicker than you are now. Good luck.
  5. Paul Harvey voice - " Stay tuned and I'll tell you the rest of the story"

    10 pages later - there's more to the story
  6. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    from West TN

    31vicky, there is not really more to the story, I just thought I would explain how this job went to shit, at least in my eyes. Its not really related to the issues with my car or how I need to handle it, its just story line of how things went down and now that its over, its more clear why it turned out this way.

    After my car was there for months and I was pressuring them to get moving, this new guy comes rolling into town from Alaska and basically tells him he is the best paint/body guy around there and he needed a job. I met the guy, seemed real knowledgeable. The owner let him have several smaller jobs, then let him have bigger ones. I saw a couple he painted and it looked great. One of the owners friends, who is wealthy and just sold his model A at barret jackson this year for big money, let him paint his 57 ford truck. he is pretty picky and was very pleased and told me in person he laid down the paint better than anyone else he has seen around there.

    The owner told me he was going to put "Alaska" on my car and have him doing nothing else until its done. I was thrilled after hearing the rave reviews on his work. He was working on it hard, saw progress and stopped by a couple of times. Then it happened again, about a week, no progress. Owner finally told me that Alaska was showing up to work half drunk and missing work, and told him to take a couple days off and drink up and get it out of his system and come back Monday to work. Awesome.

    The main shop has a 4 bays they work on stuff, but he paints in another building about 2 miles down the road. I remember asking him when I first drop the car off if he had a down draft booth, he said OH YEA definitely.

    Since this guy was new in town he had no place to live. The owner had a motorhome at the other building and was letting him rent that from him (banjos begin :) ) Anyway the owner said I am going to take your car over to the other building and let him do it all there, that way he can work on it anytime he wants to and will only work on yours until its done. Said he likes to work late at night to so it will get done quicker having access anytime he wants to work on it.

    So after being there for weeks I couldnt figure out why it wasnt getting done, because when Alaska took it over there, the owner said it was 95% ready to be painted. I drive out there one day unannounced and said lets go see the car. So he took me to the new building, which I didnt know where was. Alaska came out and we looked the car over, it was looking pretty good, but long way away from painting. I could smell the beer pretty loud to and this was around 1PM. Bonus of working by yourself I guess.

    I needed to bring some parts to him to paint for the interior so days later I came back out there to where Alaska was, without the owner. Then he really lays it on about how he hasnt got any other jobs to do but mine, he hasnt been paid a dime on my car and said he wouldnt be until it was done and he has had it for weeks and is broke, bla bla. Kept saying I have to get this job done so I can get some money, but dont worry, I am going to do it right, I take pride in my work. Then was saying he had told the owner he was ready to paint it for a week, but he wouldnt buy the materials and all that. So I said I will get you the stuff ASAP if your ready for it.

    I called the owner said WTF, he wants the stuff and said you wont buy it. He said if he is ready I will get it tomorrow. I mentioned the disgruntled mess and he said I have been paying him weekly on it, he is full of shit. So someone is lying, and people arent happy. Not good for me.

    I had to go out of town and the owner said I will send you pics in couple of days, it will be painted for sure. Days went by, nothing. Kept asking questions, why, when, they finally said "Alaska" is gone, not sure why. I was worried sick about my car, he ensured me it was there and fine, although he didnt know. I said go check on it and he said well we always leave the key on the back of the motorhome, and he must have it with him. (Furious at this point). Really? You cant get into your own damn building?? Owners father in law owns the building and lives across the street. He tells us Alaska left because he found out his sister died and had to go to funeral. He was gone until Monday, about 3 days, and finally came back. Owner said car will be painted this week, again.

    So to keep it short about 2 more weeks go by before its painted, you name the excuses...Bottom line is the car (which he isnt making money on) and the drunk are out of sight outta mind to the owner being at the other place all alone, which was the point I believe. How ridiculous is this, he told me it was painted, but he didnt go look at it for 2 days because he was so busy. Probably just another lie. So finally I get some pics of the car painted, looked awesome.

    He calls me at home that night and fills me in on whats going on. He said Alaska is no longer working there. WTF?? He said over the weekend (right after he painted my car) he gave him an insurance job to fix for some extra money over the weekend. Well saturday night Alaska decided he needed to go party, and he dont have a car, so guess what he did. Daddy in law across the street somehow knew he left in it, called shop owner, they reported car stolen and the cops finally caught up with him about 1AM on the way home, drunk as shit. DUI, jail, he has never been back. Thanks the lord I disassembled enough of my car (on purpose) so no joy riding could occur, or it might have been mine gone.

    So to sum it up. He sent my car and the "drunk" but supposedly awesome painted to a separate place to finish my car. Again, out of sight out of mind, he eleminated 2 problems at once, got the drunk and the losing money project out of his hair.

    All during the process I would ask for pictures, he would tell me all the time he hasnt been over there yet, to busy at his shop, dont want to bother him while he works, he is a perfectionist and doesnt like to be bothered when working etc.

    So in the end, he really has NO idea what is on my car in the way of # of coats, did he use sealer, how much clear and all that. He knows what he bought and gave him, but all he saw was a before and after of it. This is bad for me, and him because I see problems with the job, he of course tries to defend them but he truly cant because he dont know things such as is there seam sealer really in the drip rail, or is there clear on the jambs or not. I can tell its not, he insists there is of course. But he didnt do the work or see it done, and probably knows its not there, but has to lie and hope I let it go.

    This my friends is how my job went to shit. Disgruntled, drunk employee that needed to get the job done to get paid. And by the way remember the down draft booth, HA HA, its a concrete block wall building about 20x20 and nothing else. This would explain the pluthera of trash in my paint.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  7. 1time
    Joined: Dec 5, 2009
    Posts: 82

    from minnesota

    I said it before & I'll say it again BULLSHIT
  8. rods29sedan2
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 50


    Having been doing paint/body work on my own cars and those of other for about 25 years now, I can tell you that with the modern products, almost anything can be repaired to an acceptable level. That doesn't excuse poor prep and work, though, for sure. Your biggest problem will be matching and blending that color......high metallic content....glad it's not me trying to do it..............Good luck.
  9. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    from West TN

    And then theres this guy :rolleyes:..

    your right man, its all bullshit, I should have mentioned there was a clause in our agreement that stated

    "Any and All fukups of said paint and body work will be tolerated and appreciated" , "Furthermore onwner of said car has agreed that we can half ass the job and even use a color of our choice on the roof (since he will need to re-do it soon anyway), and not worry about it"

    I just hated to admit it everyone that I put it in there.
  10. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,559

    from Garner, NC

    I said it before and I'll say it again, when you make a comment liked this it adds nothing to the conversation. Nada, zip, zilch. :eek:
  11. FatChrist Magic
    Joined: Jun 4, 2012
    Posts: 66

    FatChrist Magic

    Yeah, but you didn't really say anything of substance before and you're not saying anything this time either.

    Making an open-ended accusation that the OP is somehow lying or not telling all of the story amounts to little more than you acting the troll. I think the thread starter has done everyone a favor with this thread. He has been open minded, listened to criticism, and recognized his own culpability a number of times.

    Yes, the shop owner would have a different story... but based on the work done at his garage (and the people doing it, from the sound of things), he wouldn't have much credibility in my opinion.

    So stop stirring turds. It smells bad.

    Also, caveat emptor.
  12. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    from West TN

    Some more eye candy as I dig into it all

    Agreement stated - Sandblast and repair trunk patch panel

    Painted over rust on the top side, now showing its face. And the bottom he did nothing. I have since removed all the rust from the welded areas and seam sealed the overlap and undercoated it to stop the rust there.



    Showing where there is no paint on the bottom edge of the car on either side. Well, there is a little bit of overspray if that counts. awesome


  13. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 268

    from Maryland

    It's still all on the owner, because "the buck stops here". Poor business decisions made on his part. Do you know why most shops fail?? Not because they can't do the technical work well, but because the average Joe doesn't know how to run a business. Sorry guys, statistically you guys too :) Businesses fail mostly because of poor business decisions. You hire a drunk you know nothing about and turn a customers car over to him?? please!!! I'm surprised his business is still going . . because he isn't the right person to take custody of a person's car.
  14. True but the OP really seemed to have the blinders on and ignored a BUNCH or warning signs. The minute the owner tells me that the employee he has working on my car has a drinking problem I pull my car and don't pay another penny.

    Maybe he felt he was in too far or didn't want the hassle of looking for another shop but there is no way this should have gotten as far as it did.
  15. Bigchuck
    Joined: Oct 23, 2007
    Posts: 1,134

    from Austin, TX

    Get as much of your money back as possible, and take it somewhere that knows what they are doing and gives a damn. Expect to pay between 5 and 10 grand to get it right. Time is money and it takes lots of time for quality paint and body work.
  16. We ignored you the first time because we thought you had the wrong thread, as there is nothing here about "holes". The second time it is obvious you are just muttering to yourself.

    Is there something you wish to say that would explain your thoughts?:confused:
    Or are you content to just mutter?

  17. ctfortner
    Joined: Aug 16, 2008
    Posts: 444

    from West TN

    I am the OP, and agree, I had the blinders on. Was in to far, wanted it done, dont have money to go somewhere else now, and didnt want to bring it home half done. Maybe been better off, but as an optimist I was hoping. I dont disagree I could have made better choices in the matter, but I got what I got and paid what I paid, and I am not happy with either. Just a matter now of what am I going to do about it.
  18. It's a lot like coming up on a yellow/red light. You know you should stop, slam on the brakes and lock them up if you have to- but for some reason you hit the gas and hope you make it thru unharmed.

    If you find yourself in a hole, put the shovel down and quit digging.

    If you have one finger stuck, don't push your hand in, if your hand is stuck, don't push your ARM in, if your ARM is stuck don't push your body in to get your ARM hand and finger.
  19. brian55lvr
    Joined: Oct 24, 2010
    Posts: 603

    from ma

  20. FatChrist Magic
    Joined: Jun 4, 2012
    Posts: 66

    FatChrist Magic

    It's better to lose your eye or hand then to have your whole body burned in the inferno. Matthew 5:29

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
  21. tbird37821
    Joined: Jan 11, 2007
    Posts: 145


    I can see how the op was taken in by the body shop. We have run a shop for the last 20 years and have had some really slick cars sitting around before they were sold. I've had many guys stop in wanting to have an old car restored after they looked at some of our work. BUT... we are a collision shop first and the old cars we do are owned by us and are only done for resale. We can make a lot more doing collision work than on old cars for customers. That's why we don't take any older jobs in. Does the body shop that did his car do old cars as a side jobs ? Maybe they figured as long as his material bill and pay to 'Alaska" didn't exceed the 4 grand quote he would make money. When things started going to shit the body shop owner seems to think that he has done all he can for the price quoted which is BS. Bet he wouldn't let an insurance job go out the door looking like that. That being said I don't see any good recourse for the op in dealing with the shop unless the shop wants to refund a portion of his money as a good will gesture. It wasn't like this -[​IMG] was in the parking lot even though some of the work looks similar . It looks like the op did his best at getting a good job but lost. There's a bunch of info on the HAMB that will help him fix whats bad on the job and many that will help all they can.
  22. Alaska, is that you? :eek:
  23. HighSpeed LowDrag
    Joined: Mar 2, 2005
    Posts: 968

    HighSpeed LowDrag
    from Houston

    I totally agree with you. The man signed a contract. Both parties have an obligation to fullfill the contract. Totally agree on this. No question.

    My point was that as a consumer looking to spend money, you have to weigh all of the options. Is the contract that you are signing something that you believe the other party is able to live up to. I understand OP asked around and looked at several jobs this guy did but in the end he got hosed. Contract or not, he got hosed.

    Does the shop have any money to refund him? My guess is NO. If they actually cared, they would never let the car go out the door like that. Most reputable shops wouldn't even let a customer see the car in that condition. They would be redoing it the very next day after paint. That's another thing - a shop owner who's too busy to look at a freshly painted car? Really? His reputation on the line and he's too busy? Hmmm. Whatever.

    The really bad part of all of this is that it does seem like OP did homewrk on this shop. Price seemed good (too good to me, for the work described) and yet he still got hosed. That's not cool.

    I wish OP lived near me. I'd help him fix it. Then he would know how long it takes to do it right. I promise you that the next car he got an estimate on, he would be able to do the math in his head and know if he was being lowballed.

    I know I'm biased because I do it for living but if someone asked me to do the amount of work in OP's contract for 4K, I would have declined right away. Even as a side job, it's unrealistic.

    There must be some Hambers who live around OP and can help him out. I know I would. It's a nice car that has his family history. Can't put a price on that.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  24. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908


    I like belair's suggestion,....Kind of like putting lemons on a new car, and parking it in front of the dealer....... Not to mention driving it all over town !

  25. robyyo
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 234

    from Orange CA

    I don't know man, once I hear half drunk guy from Alaska living in a van down by the river's going to be working on my car I yank it from that shop. All the signs were there!
  26. REALITY CHECK : It don't matter how good the materials are now or how talented the painter is regarding touch ups and paint matching. The car has to be stripped and the job redone correctly if it's ever going to get close to what the owner wants.
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,863


    Nope, not needed. That's a $12K+ proposition and in real time, throwing good money after bad. EVERYTHING is fixable. There's no way that the whole car will "shed it's skin" going down the road due to the lack of personal attention. It wouldn't look as good as it does now if that were the case. The only thing that can't be repaired is the OP's perception of the car, as he's the one familiar with every square inch of it. We're not. ctfortner, as hard as it is to remove yourself from the whole gig that's exactly what you need to do. Take a realistic look at it with your pals, remove the family ties to the car, get dirty and make it as right as it can be. In the end you'll feel like you got a $20K job for 1/3 the price, and you'll smile so big over your personal investment in labor/effort that you may need to turn your head just to finish the grin. Once done, all the bad taste will have gone the way of the dinosaur, and you can start a new chapter in the family's old Ford. In the meantime you can try to force a bit of a refund for your trouble, and it may help cover your new mat'l costs. You just need to trust me on that score. Get off this topic and get to work on your car. Just sayin...
  28. I don't think that would be necessary. Overall it looks good and the problem areas can be fixed and spotted in. Body shops do that sort of thing everyday. I think some people get mentally constipated and can't get past the underlying questions, but repairs will work out if you work smart.
    I don't know why some body shops do that, but I have seen numerous paint jobs that end at the bottom of the vertical surfaces, instead of going all the way to the pinch welds on the rockers and the fender edges! That can easily be spotted in well.
    Keep us posted on how the repairs come out.

  29. I don't know why some body shops do that, but I have seen numerous paint jobs that end at the bottom of the vertical surfaces, instead of going all the way to the pinch welds on the rockers and the fender edges!

    Lazy !

    Unless you jack it up, put on plenty high stands and remove the tires in the paint booth, you can't get your gun in there. When its that high you need a ladder to paint the deck lid and hood. It should be done when as a cut in when everything else is being cut in but its usually not high enough then either. so unless someone makes a deliberate effort to pant solid to the pinch weld it doesn't get done right.
  30. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,751

    from SW Wyoming

    Yes, no paint on the bottom of the rockers or around wheel openings is just lame and lazy. Even if you don't jack the car up to reach there, I would turn my air cap sideways and make sure I covered the rockers. Good grief Charlie Brown, that has always been one of my pet peeves, a nice looking paint job with no paint on the first areas to rust! Usually followed by that famous quote "Nobody looks there anyway" GRRRRRRRRRR!

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