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OPINION: Cool Motors for a Shoebox (Besides A Flatty)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SlowandLow63, Oct 28, 2004.

  1. Supercharged 312, 300-6 with Clifford stuff, or make it a Fordillac.
     
  2. Bass
    Joined: Jul 9, 2001
    Posts: 3,341

    Bass
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    Yeah, anything but a SBC. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Yawn. Some of you guys sound like the old men down at the Dairy Queen.
     
  3. Hey my Cummins Turbo Diesel makes 320hp and 881tq at the rear wheels with about $200 invested in upgrades...then again this is a 6,000lb truck so it's not very fast.


    That'd sure be a sight to see though...Cummins-powered Shoebox... [​IMG]
     
  4. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,637

    porknbeaner
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    ... A caddy mill is cool as hell, but costs way too much for your/my budget...

    my $.02

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I had a low mile(10,00 original) 331 cad for sale awhile back 500.00. No takers imagine that.
    Fordillac is the only way to go. Just my .02.

    Otherwise I'd look for a 312. I've run 272s and 292s and if I really wanted to run a Y-Block a 312 is the only option.
     
  5. Brock49Ford
    Joined: Aug 20, 2002
    Posts: 511

    Brock49Ford
    Member

    You ain't lackin' if your Cadillacin'!!!! I have a 1960 Cad 390 with a toploader in my 1949 2dr Sedan, so I guess that I am biased. [​IMG]

    Brock
     
  6. fuel pump
    Joined: Nov 4, 2001
    Posts: 3,620

    fuel pump
    Member
    from Caro,MI


    How about a 283 with a Cad air cleaner

    [​IMG]
     
  7. 48_HEMI
    Joined: Oct 3, 2002
    Posts: 839

    48_HEMI
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Poncho power

    [/ QUOTE ]




    Rocky meant PUNCHY Power
     
  8. beatnik
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 2,206

    beatnik
    Member

  9. 48_HEMI
    Joined: Oct 3, 2002
    Posts: 839

    48_HEMI
    Member

    what ever you put in it paint it red and black and put Y-Block decals on it! no one will notice the distributor in front or the Aussie Aluminum Heads [​IMG]
     

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  10. UnIOnViLLEHauNT
    Joined: Jun 22, 2004
    Posts: 4,814

    UnIOnViLLEHauNT
    Member

    First off I have to say thats one of the nicest SBCs Ive ever seen in my life...kudos to Bass.

    In adding my .02 I would have to say Olds Rocket, for the sheer fact of thats what was probably going into a shoebox back in the day. 303 out in 1949 would sure walk a flatty and have a good tone, plus were probably more attainable to a youngster than a caddy mill would be...maybe just on principle that it takes ALOT harder hit to land a new Caddy in the junkyard than it would to total an Olds in sheer vehicle mass and insurable declared value.

    Keep in mind whichever you decide, or how many millions of carbs you decide to run, is that people swapped motors to make thier car go faster. Period. There was no Jegs or Summit, people like us couldn't order aluminum heads for an early Nailhead, fuel projection kits with laptop controls etc. or be able to buy one of 19 major brand performance carbureters tuned one of 1,000 ways from the factory to the specs of your custom machined cam specs. Hot rodders went to the boneyard, pulled the biggest motor they could, found any one pair of rubber soled gym sneakers to use as motor mount insulaters, and went to town.

    57 Joe lists alot of good choices, but nailhead save for 401 or 425 will limit your transmission/open driveshaft choices at which point you might as well step back to a 48 Ford drivetrain/tube. Early Caddy is very cool, but quasi hard to come by. 472/500 Caddy is cool, but not from the day, which I am assuming is what you are going for (being you were just at my house 20 mins ago and I know you) Y block is a DEF good candidate, and is starting to develop a stronger aftermarket which can help with bolt on goodies that don't drain a wallet, and transmission possibilities are endless (including a 4 spd or 3 spd with OD...that .65 final drive makes a WORLD of difference in reducing 1/3 ur revs) Remember without a rear swap in plan, the flatties got alot of help out back, and if yours was a fact OD car plan on a 4.10 rear. OUCH.

    You could as stated swing a 350 or 400 trans behind a GM and go...but unfortunately not behind 98% of the ones we are talking about save for 70s Cad or SBC. Of course of course, we can use an A-dapter kit as Mr. Cash would have said, but if we are adapting to use a GM trans then why not a 700R4, and if all that, then Y not a Y block?

    This is a full circle debate. Paper or plastic. French vanilla or Hazlenut. Wanna mess with people? Use a Merc 4
    " crank buried under Ford heads. Wanna really mess with people? Swap a Merc flatty in there. Use a later 52-3 and just take a gander on who notices the EAC cast on your Mercury heads. That would be a trip.

    Olds Rocket is the coolest in this persons opinion, but a fair amount of money and work to get where Im happy with it (backed by OD automatic, relocated starter) I am building one for my 55 Olds right now, but I have a funny feeling that'll just "bolt right in" lol. Second coolest would be a Y block. Multi carb if you must, with a 3 spd OD or a 77-78 truck 3 spd OD so you can run a monster tall floor shifter. Or if auto is your gig call Wilcap and back it with an AOD with a kit. Just make sure its a pre 92 so no electronic lockup conv issues.

    Whatever ya run just run it and be proud, even if it grenades.

    Chris
    Unionville
     
  11. epinut
    Joined: Jul 11, 2004
    Posts: 736

    epinut
    Member

    Stock hopped upped flatty or Y-block, perhaps a Rocket or a nailhead or even a Caddy would work, but IL chevy 6 in a Ford???
     
  12. SlowandLow63
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 5,953

    SlowandLow63
    Member
    from Central NJ

    i like y-block alot and am leaning towards that i have a nailhead 322 at my disposal but then the trans question comes into play caddy i feel is a little out of my $$ range and as far as an olds id love a 324 or 394 but well see what i come across when it happens keep any pics comin if ya like
     
  13. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,077

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Billy,

    I still say you're crazy to run a WHY?!-block. You've seen my cam (all 4 pieces of it) and my rod (all 3 pieces of it) that came out of my 272. And I wasn't even messing with it when it came apart.

    UnionvilleHaunt makes good points, one can make good power with a 292 or a 312. There is indeed an expanding aftermarket for Y-Blocks and Olds Rockets, speed parts are now available for these motors and good power can come out of them. However...how much will it take, both in physical work and money, to extract that power out of those motors?

    I dealt with this issue when I was choosing a new motor for my '57. A Y-Block of any size would bolt right in. I could have easily taken a 292 or a 312, had it bored and machined, cammed up, install high compression pistons, had the heads ported, headers, electronic ignition and a 4 bbl and made say...300-350 horepower and be 4 grand in the hole. With the aftermarket parts available, you can make about 400 hp with a Y-Block.

    400 horsepower...CONGRATU-FUCKIN-LATIONS

    Seriuosly, in the grand scheme of things, that isn't a lot, and for the amount of money it would cost to build a 400 hp Y-block, you can build a 400+ hp SBC, a built 700-R4, and a posi rear. You need the right foundation to build horsepower. My bone stock 383 mopar makes 330 hp and 425 ft/lbs of torque, and cost under 2K to build fresh. Not to say that these numbers are that impressive, but give me another 2 grand and we'll see then. 4 grand into a SBC will yield retarded hp, and you can make it look as tits as BASS's motor.

    Walk into Pep Boys and ask for a water pump out of a 312 and they'll tell you to go fuck yourself.

    Are you looking to have a car to pick fights with? Is period correctness an absolute must? Are you looking to daily drive the car? That will dictate what motor you go with
     
  14. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,077

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    read this post

    And you can deck that out with all the finned aluminum goodies and make it look money. 283, 307, 327, 350, 400...nobody can tell the difference. The mustang in the lane next to you won't even know what hit him.
     
  15. Circus Bear
    Joined: Aug 10, 2004
    Posts: 3,223

    Circus Bear
    Member

    I'm puttin amopar 383 with a 727 tranny in my '50 chevy. The front dizzy makes things so much easier plus people alway give me that what the fuck look when I mention it.
     
  16. BUICKNAILHEAD
    Joined: Jul 21, 2003
    Posts: 396

    BUICKNAILHEAD
    Member

    I saw this one in 2003 and was blown away. Such a cool ride....
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. My last shubox was a 49 coupe and I fell victim to the easy way out...a 350-350 with a ford 8 inch. It certainly was easy. I used the old ford 6 banger mount stands and drilled a throughbolt hole in ;em....welded them to the crossmember and reused the stock tranny crossmember BANG! It was done.
    Actually, I loved the way the car drove and accelerated! I'd use one again in a minute.
     

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  18. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,077

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    dvanecek,
    A 383/727 combo in a 50 chevy is one combo I've never seen before...I love it, and that's coming from a guy who loves Chevy stuff. You gotta drop some pics of that
    I put the 383/727 in my '57 Ford, can't say it was easy, just the opposite in fact, but I love the reaction I get, good or bad.
    I had a guy tell me that putting that motor in that car was worse than being gay...made my week.
     
  19. Henry Floored
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 1,370

    Henry Floored
    Member

    Hey Joe I don't understand quite where you are going with this. First why if you are on the subject of cheap power for late `50's Ford did you not choose the 460 Ford. I've got a DOVE headed 460 in the shop right now that I bought for $150. I figure I can finish this engine for between $2000-$3000. These things are easily capable of 400hp with stock parts (heads,intake manifold) plus a little cam,compression and exhaust port work. 500 hp is easy with aftermarket intake a carburation so why are'nt Ford engines always used in Ford cars?


    Oh and while I'm on the subject, I think I need to defend the Y-block a little here. First the Y got a bad rap for upper end oiling shortages for units that were'nt well maintained. The early bugs were worked out just like any engine from any manufacturer. The Chevys were plagued with bad cams in the early years then again in the 305"'s of the `80's but you never hear anyone complain about that . The Y- block Ford was a premium engine that leaned more to "robust" construction than cheapness. In fact the cheap small block chevy forced the other manufacturers to kill their costly to build designs and come up with their own cheaper to build designs. I'm talking about the various Hemis, Polys, Ford and Lincoln Y-blocks, Buick nailheads, Cads, Olds, Pontiacs Studebakers, Packards all either died or were replaced with "low cost" replacements in the late `50's early `60's. Y-blocks were premium in my opinion because they used hi grade (nickle content) cast iron for their consruction. They employed a "skirt" below the crank provide support for driveline attachment. Rigid shaft mounted valvetrain, exhaust valve rotators, camshaft thrust plates, integeral valve guides, centerbolt valvecovers and on and on. BTW there is a new aluminum performance head out for 'em and Blue Thunder has a newly designed performance intake on the market. Lastly though a Chevy can surely be made to look pretty, nothing compares to a dual quad Y with Thunderbird valvecovers.


    You are comparing a 383 to a 292 engine here, your comparison forces the Y to give up 91 cubic inches and still put out compareable horsepower. For the same or less money I'll bet that a 429 or 460 Ford will give anyone a run for their money. Sure your points about the sbc are valid, after all look at the development that has gone into them and the sheer economies of scale force prices down, but does that mean that it is right for every application? What's wrong with a Shoebox Ford with genuine Ford power under the bonnet for Pete's sake? Are'nt there enough chevy powered everythings out there now anyway?
     
  20. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,077

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Mike,

    You are absolutely right, the Y Block was a premium engine for the day. The rocker arm design of the Y Block is superior to that of the 383 mopar's stamped shaft mounted design, which is currently preventing me from upgrading my cam without upgrading my rocker arms. The Block is also very strong, I'll personally vouch for this. My #1 rod tore in half and part of it got pinned between the counterweight and the block, causing a tire-locking sieze at 70 mph...I'm sure I would have lauched the rod through the side of a SBC.

    My arguement is bang for buck with an element of cool thrown in for good measure. I'm 20, Billy is even younger...we are broke ass college kids. What I'm saying is that bang for the buck, a Y-Block is not a motor where through minor upgrades big power is gonna be generated. There's nothing wrong with running a 429 or a 460, in fact I was at a street race where a 460 powered shoebox shit all over a worked 330 olds, really a brutal ass kicking. Even a 302 would be a better choice than a Y Block, there's a vast cheap aftermarket and they look/sound/run good. At the track worked mustangs are going like bats outta hell, and doing it cheap.
    I just checked out those Blue Thunder cylinder heads you speak of online, and though I can't find prices for Y Block heads, I'm sure they will be comparable to those of the 429/460...$1550...bare. That's a few hundred less that my entire engine cost. As far as cubes go, a 341ci Y block was built with blue thunder port matched intake, 12.5:1 cr, and custom cam along with many other extensive internal modicications. It produced 451 hp and 388 ft/lbs of torque. For all the work and money that went into this motor (which isn't even streetable), I could have built an entire drivetrain with a SBF or SBC that would drop the Y block like a bad habit, and then drive home.
    Yes, Y blocks can create power, and they do look cool. But for cheap power building one is barking up the wrong tree. To me, building a 383 mopar seemed the thing to do. With factory forged crank and rods, bullet proof durability, relatively cheap and available parts, and can make 330 horse with 10.2:1 compression, a ~420/440 lift cam, stock heads and exhaust manifolds and a small 4 bbl. Cubes or not, give me aluminum heads, dual 4's, headers, nitrous...it's a motor that is capable of sustaining a lot of horsepower. A 429/460 is too, so is a 302, and a SBC definitely is...a Y block is not.
    For us broke ass college kids, we need to find that balance of cheap, cool, relaible and availability of parts. I think the Y block comes up short.
     
  21. laidoutford
    Joined: Jun 16, 2004
    Posts: 440

    laidoutford

    350 Chevy with 350 turbo trans and a 9 inch rear. Dress it up a little, close the hood and drive it. Shit, I forgot I don't have my hood on yet. Guess I'm not traditional enough yet...
    [​IMG]
     
  22. nero
    Joined: Jan 2, 2002
    Posts: 205

    nero
    Member

    i wanted to be different,i put a 4.6 dohc 95 lincoln mark 8 in my 50 ford,cool ride.!22mpg on hiway.
     
  23. K-is-for-kustom
    Joined: Jan 5, 2009
    Posts: 84

    K-is-for-kustom
    BANNED

    HA!! I'm putting a 232 stude (similar to cad/olds rocket) in mine! Whats more odd ball than a stude painted pontiac blue in a shoebox? I need pics of a rocket or cad in a shoebox if anyone has one though, it would be appreciated.
     
  24. havi
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,876

    havi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    430 MEL w/tripower FTW

    Oh crap! I fell victim to a resurrected thread, lol. :eek:
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
  25. Y-Block. Nuff Said.
     
  26. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    2004? Man, put down the shovel and let'em rest.
     
  27. 1 shot
    Joined: Aug 30, 2006
    Posts: 907

    1 shot
    BANNED

    Inline 6.
    Flatty inline 6.
    292 y block.

    And i'd go multi carbs.

    1shot
     
  28. :cool:
     
  29. worm0163
    Joined: Apr 22, 2009
    Posts: 104

    worm0163
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. 57-60 Ford F100s

    302 roller motor, motorsport B cam, mulitcarb intake, FINNED EVERYTHING!
     
  30. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,077

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Hahahaha, I had a full head of hair when I posted on this thread last. :)

    Billy's shoebox is getting a 302 SBF, GT40 heads and we're gonna try to get one of those nifty tri-power setups going, with a WC T5 behind it. We're also dropping an S10 front clip in. Work will start shortly, updates will follow
     

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