The olds 425 ran from 66-69. I'm looking at a 66 toronado. Just for the engine. What's the difference between a 39* and 45* degree cam? Why is one better? Will a front wheel drive engine have different exhaust manifolds? Will these manifolds need to be replaced if swapped into a car. Pulled this from the oldspower forum """"For example my '66 TORNADO 425 is as it should be a 39 degree block with .921" diameter lifters. A '66 non-Toronado 425 should be a 45 degree block with regular .842" lifters" Sent from my SM-J727T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
you might have more trouble finding lifters for a 39 degree block....since they didn't make many of them.... You do need to know which one you have, when it's time to buy a cam/lifters for it. Other than that, it's not a big deal
Yes, they are a little different, as the transmission is off to one side, and the exhaust needs to clear that. The kicked-out outlet might be an issue on some steering setups. Rear wheel drive headers or manifolds should take care of the issue.
I'll check that out, thanks for your earlier post about the cam Sent from my SM-J727T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Not hugely different. It has a 1/3rd circle recess to clear the axle. Since the neither the Toronado or the Eldorado are known for oiling issues, I suspect that using the pan in a RWD application wound not be too much of an issue.
It's just the earlier block, IIRC 64-67 engines(including 330) were the 39° engines, the larger lifter also allows for a larger more aggressive lobe much like a roller lifter/cam. While still being a flat tappet style. I *think* the later roller 307 Olds used the .921 lifter size. Pretty sure some Mother Mopar engines used the same lifter diameter as well. So I don't think there is a problem with locating new lifters. Larger lifter diameter for a more aggressive cam roller type cam. 425's from Toros in general tend to be the best variant. Higher CR, better flowing heads, more power. Olds Halo car had the better engine. Think windage tray or scraper was standard,. Yup. Toro manifolds are only good if you plan on keeping the transaxle. Otherwise they are pretty useless in any other application. At least the drivers side is, it points up and away, rather than down and in. Find a pair of repop 'W' manifolds for best flowing factory exhaust manifolds. Sanderson used to have cast Olds manifolds, no idea if they still do. Or any of the various headers. Oil filter mount is different as well, you will probably need to find a RWD oil filter mount, should be easy enough. Oil pan is different to clear the half shaft, use a regular pan.
Wow you broke it down. I really understood evertying you said, thanks for doing that, i got it all. Have a good week brother. 's Sent from my SM-J727T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
If you get a cam and then buy .921 lifters from a separate source make sure you degree the cam and then compare the valve events on no. 6 cylinder to no. 1. If the cam you purchased is for an Olds with the 45* lifter bore angle the timing at #6 will be off, the engine will run but will never be right.
D'oH! The main point of my post was to note that one bank will have incorrect timing if a 39° cam was used in a 45° block or vice versa. And you cannot make the cam 'straight up' to 'make it work'. It will just run wrong and you won't be able to tune it properly. Thanks for the save Fordors. One other note on the early engines... 425/330(and the 'good' early 'big bore' 400) cranks are steel. Which is great, but the flywheel bolt pattern is different compared to the later 68'-90' Olds. So if you plan on putting the 425 in front of a M/T, make sure you get the right flywheel for your early Gen II Rocket. Can't recall if the Toro flexplate is different from a typical RWD flexplate. Don't think you can redrill a 455/350 Olds flywheel, the pattern is just different enough that the holes will not line up correctly and there is not enough meat. Cheaper/easier to just get the correct pattern wheel and be done with it. Rocket II Olds are externally balanced so you cannot just rotate the flywheel to make it work. Scroll down ~midway and you will see the BP difference. http://blog.wrenchmanrepair.com/category/oldsmobile-engine/ 330, and I think 425, used shaft mounted rockers. 350/455 used pedestal types. I believe this is also a quick way of determining which cam angle block you have(if original heads on original block). Pulleys, on Oldsmobiles, can be a whore. You will need to use the complete set and the bracketry to make it work without alignment issues. It is a PITA. Which brings up another issue. If you plan on removing A/C compressor but keeping the P/S pump, you will need to put the Alternator over where the A/C compressor was. This keeps the belt tension balanced from left to right and extends the bearing life of the water pump. That, and the belts will squeal no matter how tight they are if you don't. If you plan on ditching everything but the Alternator, then it shouldn't be a concern, but you will still need to verify the pulleys are correctly aligned. Check inside the waterpump pulley, not just external height or depth of the WP pulley. Olds would use a welded in spacer inside the hub of the WP pulley. Speaking of belts, keep your original known good ones. Some muppet decades ago screwed up the belt sizing and the parts store seems to always have the wrong belts listed. Length and width. I could write a book on the screwed up belt sizing of late '70s-'90 V-belts. Clusterfuck, a novel on Oldsmobile V belts. Check out the OldsFAQ at 442.com. has some good info. But some of it can be opinion based so verify what is fact. EDIT: As gimpy posted the Toro pan, it will work in other cars, but that front sump cannot be drained and it can hold quite a bit of oil. Unless you get the car at a 45° nose up you are never going to get that oil drained. If you use good oil and change it regularly, not a big deal. But that oil can get whipped up and become windage and aerate. Not good for oiling. If you are going down a long downhill quite a bit of oil can be trapped in the front sump and not drain over the axle hump. I believe the Toro's had an additional 1/2-1 quart capacity added to their oil change recommendation to keep enough oil in the normal sump. Not because the pan actually held more oil. Ideally, once the oil is drained off the engine, you want it as far away from the rotating crank as possible. This gets the oil recirculating and keeps it from aerating. /EDIT
Damm Mad Mike you broke it down even more . But this time i had to run Google searches to get a full understanding. I'm up to speed now. Thanks Mad Mike, Squirrel, fordors, Gimpy and Belair for the laugh. I'm starting to really get this now. I had a 350 chevy. Great moter but I'm really in to torque even tho I used to eat everyone off the line when I would st race. I just want something different. So I'll need to source a 425 rwd flywheel to run a th400 I'm reading, that makes sense too. Real interesting stuff on the oiling too. Thanks alot Sent from my SM-J727T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Hope you get it figured out, d&p. I like what I've read about the 425 olds. Should make a heck of an engine.
Thanks Belair, I'll get it figured out I'm sure. They are a nice engine. Have a great Thanksgiving. Sent from my SM-J727T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
This helped me a great deal! Thank you for sharing! I recently acquired a machined 330 with refurbished #1 heads, new pistons and new cam none was installed but original packaging was gone. Can you help me to know how to determine if the cam is correct for the engine? I have attached a pic of the cam. A Google search has come up empty for me. Also wondering if I can run a 350 crank with the 330 rods. I read something about not using rods which were made for forged cranks on cast cranks? I want to use the 350 crank so I can use my 350 flywheel.
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