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Projects Official Chrysler Flathead 6 W/ Dual Carbs Dual Exhaust Thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flat Six Fix, May 12, 2016.

  1. Math
    Joined: Dec 1, 2016
    Posts: 4

    Math

    The car is no longer mine however I did manage to find a couple recent pictures of the car.

    I have recently purchased a stock P8 Chrysler with an 3.3/8" engine. it has a KEW engine number. This is a later model engine with the water bypass in the head. I suspect it is from England.

    The rebuilt and runs sweet but I don't know how good it is in side. I still have the cam and extractors off the old car. I am considering later inline 6 drive train (Australian Ford falcon of maybe jeep) or do I keep the side valve with an Edgy head and multipoint injection?
     

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  2. Math
    Joined: Dec 1, 2016
    Posts: 4

    Math

    upload_2016-12-6_21-23-28.png
     
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  3. unclescooby
    Joined: Jul 5, 2004
    Posts: 4,939

    unclescooby
    Member
    from indy

    I've got a 51 Windsor two door with a Spitfire with an Edmunds head, Edmunds tripower, Ducoil dizzy, and another spare old homemade tripower but I've never done anything with it. Good old rust free car but it hasn't run in decades. Maybe next year....
     
  4. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    I would keep the L head all the way, but ulitmately that will be your decision.
    Shave the head, hotter cam, AoK racing tri carb intake, and that can get toyu where you want to be.
    The engine, 3 3/8 bore, whats the stroke, is it a 201,218 or 228. The long block engines can take a lot of boring from 3 3/8, you could get a crank and rods from a 250/265 too...
     
  5. choptop4
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 654

    choptop4
    Member

    It will go on the dyno in the spring. Just want to see what it puts out .
     
  6. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Okay great, look forward to your results, so what have you for induction ?
    Does this preclude pics of your engine at this point?
    What are the plans for the engine Your pic of the engine is near 7 years old, is it in a car or truck yet?
    How many F head conversions did Earl create to date?
     
  7. Latigo
    Joined: Mar 24, 2014
    Posts: 637

    Latigo
    Member

    Not my engine but the look I aspire to. Now that is a beautiful engine.
     

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  8. hitek
    Joined: Dec 30, 2012
    Posts: 41

    hitek
    Member

    Lol - to each his own, but the carter webers are pretty small cfm. The offy and/or fenton intake is too low so if looses tons of torque. The fenton headers work, but I prefer the look of the stock ones split like in my 1949 Plymouth Business coupe, lol, or 42" pipes on our AoK dragster. but in the area of duals, I love Freds. Better torque and better hp gain than the one your aspiring to. Sorry Fred for Photo-bombing your dual thread with triples.
     

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  9. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    No problem there good buddy, always enjoy your comments and wisdom.
    I should have named this the "multi carb" or "Hi Perf" thread. As both are very welcome on this thread....
     
  10. Latigo
    Joined: Mar 24, 2014
    Posts: 637

    Latigo
    Member

    Yep! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
     
  11. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Absolutely, your engine/car, your money Bro.
    An the pic you sent looks like a nice piece, not what exactly I would want.
    The post by Hitek, is where my style is.
    Hitek, is bang on with the comments of how well the offy/fenton intake and carter/webbers carbs is not just talk, not as good a set-up performance wise.
    Now having said that, if that is what you want, it's your choice, and it's welcome on this thread
     
  12. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,763

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Not everybody who has a flat six dodge ply agrees with mr Ashe. Suggesting a converted stock manifold flows better that a cast header would require some flow bench or dyno numbers to prove.

    I have had an Ellis intake and now an Offy, they are quite similar. The Ellis intake worked great. Contrary to popular opinion. And I am sure the Offy will work just as well. The carter carbs are probably the worst single you can get and as such they are very cheap.

    A friend who has built and ran several of these engines for decades swears by Zenith carbs, but they are difficult to get in good shape. He now runs a single four barrel with very good power and milage.
     
  13. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Interesting Duprat, now for the record, how many intake manifolds, exhaust splits, headers( so far seen 1 you have started), carb rebuilds, cam grinds, chrysler flathead engine rebuilds and the list can go on, that you designed and built.
    Now your opinion on the Carter B&B is just that, you offer no real world experience and/or substance to support your negative view on this particular carb, but hey lets here it. So this guy said, or he thinks its best, what can you tell us about your hands on experience with this? A single 4bbl carb, with 3 siamese intake ports, would have to be the worst choice ever.
    Now you mention Mr Asche, George has forgot a lot more than you and I will ever know about these engines, and the go fast parts for them. I think once you can say you have driven a Chrysler flathead powered car at 142 MPH on Daytona Beach, then you will have earned the rights, because Mr Asche did this very thing in 1952, many years before you and I were born.
    On 1 of your threads , you were taking shots at Mr Asche's hi performance methods and experience, tell us where your legacy is in this department, as I am all ears.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  14. J
    Love those coronets.
    I have the title for one..
    The one i had when i was 17...its probably fence posts by now.

    Anywho i think im going get a plymouth engine from a bud just to have it for later.
     
  15. hitek
    Joined: Dec 30, 2012
    Posts: 41

    hitek
    Member

    I think you need to re-read my post, me being Tim Kingsbury, although my business partner would agree with my statement. I never said the stock manifold flows better than cast headers. I did say I prefer the look of the converted stock exhaust into headers. In terms of the Ellis and Offy intake, perhaps you meant offer and fenton intake, as they along with the sharp and D&S are the same intakes. There is no question about the performance of those intakes as stated and unlike you I do have a flow bench and lots of data as well as dyno tests to prove it.

    Without question an Edmunds is a better intake, and thanks to better testing and casting technology we make a far superior dual intake. That isn't even a debating point. In terms of carbs, its clear I would be wasting my time entering the conversation with you about this. Anyone that thinks a single four barrel would be better than multiple carbs on a flathead mopar doesn't understand much about the engine. Sorry, your just on the wrong track.

    And we have not only decades of performance engine builds but well documented proof.

    Have a great day
     

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    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
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  16. BrianInPa
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 34

    BrianInPa
    Member
    from Milton

    Hitek,
    Who casts those dual and triple intakes in your photos? I see the "AoK" cast into the manifold. Are these for sale?


    Brian
     
  17. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Brian those are designed and cast by AoK Racing which Hitek is a partner in, with Mr George Asche in Pa. They are for the 25 inch long block engines. The new dual cast intakes are ready very soon, those are for the USA shorter engine such as the 218/230.
    But Tim will be able to answer all your questions, maybe shoot him a PM
     
  18. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,763

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Well I guess this has become a sales pitch for the Aok guys.
     
  19. hitek
    Joined: Dec 30, 2012
    Posts: 41

    hitek
    Member

    Sorry you think that, but when you decide to come talk smack with clearly no idea what your talking about
    and seemingly trying to pick a fight, get ready to back your stories up. Were not about some buddy who thinks such and such carb worked well and thought a 4 barrel on a flathead was the ultimate way to go, because we know better.
    Were two families with a long history of flathead mopars. Ranging from George being undefeated at the flying mile on Daytona beach in 1955 at 142 mph, through his building flathead mopars for his Uncle who is in the Nascar hall of fame.. On my side my Grandfather was Earl Bolton the GM who opened the BigBlock engine plant for Walter Chrysler in Windsor in 1935 and was there for ever flathead big block ever made. My Dad with a similar background of building flatheads for stock car and drag racing, and while he moved in the 60s into drag racing building hemis including being the engine builder for some well known top fuel cars. Dad and George were born in 1932 and we have tried to put more into the hobby than take out.

    If you want to actually learn about intakes and see the ones made, I did a 6 part series over on my blog.

    http://p15-d24.com/blogs/entry/80-r...related-technical-information-part-1-edmunds/

    http://p15-d24.com/blogs/entry/81-r...nical-information-part-2-tattersfield-nicson/

    http://p15-d24.com/blogs/entry/82-r...s-their-related-technical-information-part-3-
    the-granddaddy-dodge-plus-vintage-speed-stuff/

    http://p15-d24.com/blogs/entry/83-r...rt-4-the-still-mades-offenhauser-fenton-edgy/

    http://p15-d24.com/blogs/entry/84-r...cal-information-part-5-ellis-thickson-mcgurk/

    http://p15-d24.com/blogs/entry/85-r...nformation-part-6-sharp-or-al-sharp-fan-club/


    or the rambling on various topics, from overdrives to who knows what

    http://p15-d24.com/blogs/blog/17-keeping-up-with-the-aok-boys/

    But honestly anyone that knows us, knows we don't care if anyone buys $1 worth of stuff. Were happy to talk
    and help out anyone with their project and provide information where we have knowledge about it free of charge.

    But if you are going to take a shot over our bow, get ready for a response. Lets just leave it as that.
     
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  20. Latigo
    Joined: Mar 24, 2014
    Posts: 637

    Latigo
    Member

    Geez guys. All I said was that it was a beautiful engine! Let's keep the thread going for us flat six guys. Lot's of good info but be nice.
     
  21. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Not a problem, just a quick clean up of some rubbish. Keep on enjoying the thread, you ans any others.
    I hope this will move ahead and be a long lasting informative and fun thread.....
     
  22. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,763

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Yes some good information on flat sixes is good, but not all of it.
    For example
    There is a long standing old wives tale about the older heads making more power due to a smaller combustion chamber. This is in fact incorrect. I cc'd two early heads and the later 54 head and a 36 head are the same. The 35 head was one cc larger.
     
  23. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    What are you getting at, and what have you accomplished in this area. Are you specifically referring to early 218/230 short block engines?
    Do you have any idea, how many head designs and chamber configuration and sizes there were.
    You are stating what?, in a very vague set of examples.
    What are you basing any of your findings on, can you please explain and demonstrate your experience and results on this topic.
     
  24. hitek
    Joined: Dec 30, 2012
    Posts: 41

    hitek
    Member

    Are you talking Chrysler heads here ? If so Ive never heard that wives tale.. or anyone saying that.

    A 1935 head is the last of the USA heads and is completely different than a 1936 head which was the 1st one made in Windsor Ontario Canada. The 1954 head being the 265 ci head is the last year of the flathead 6 in the Chrysler and it has a substantially smaller chamber than did the 1936. Its a higher compression head. So it you cc a 1936 and 1954 head and they were the same, something is wrong there or in other wise if you doing it correctly then the earlier head was shaved... or the dating on the heads is not what you thought they were.

    Tim Kingsbury
     
  25. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,440

    classiccarjack
    Member

    I need to come up with one of those adapters to run my A833OD... The more I think about it, the better of an idea it becomes. My only hang up is trying to figure out how to keep the parking brake on the back of the transmission. I really want to keep my original rear end.... I also have a R10, oh decisions.... Decisions....

    Sent from my XT1585 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  26. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,056

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Is this a for a car or truck?
    If ypu want to retain the stock oem diff, then go with the R10, thats if you are already setup with column linkage?
    If not the A833 , but think you are going to be swapping diffs.
    I am not sure iof anyone has adapted a disc type ebrake on the back of a trans like the A833. By disc brake I mean a snowmobile/gokart type you can buy with a disc and calipre that is cable actuated.
    If it were mine, and has stock column linkage a no brainer, if not, diff swap to a 3.73 geared diff.
    Maybe Tim has some ideas on all of this..
     
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  27. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,440

    classiccarjack
    Member

    I have a 1938 Plymouth Truck, I have a 3 speed truck bell housing, so making the adapter fit is a no brainer... I have considered modifications to fit a later rear backing plate to move the E-Brake to the rear. And I have a Fenton 3 Speed floor shift adapter with the shifter and rods to accommodate the R10. I may build both transmissions, and get both transmission adapters from Tim. I realize that it's more money spent, but... If I am not happy with the R10, I will bite the bullet and "buck up" and convert my rear differential to a later 8 3/4 inch. Not my road of choice, but we will see. My last effort, perhaps, would be to find an early Ball and Trunion A833, and build it using the OD gears. However, the mainshaft must be machined(if possible) to accommodate. There is a narrower location on the shaft to fit 3rd(technically OD). And I realize that.

    Moral of the story is, if it's freaking darn near impossible, and very challenging... I'm in! LOL. I have accomplished the so called impossible in my past, and I live to re-engineer stuff. What is wrong with me? I have no idea... But I always find a good reliable safe solution. If it doesn't add up on paper, I abandon the idea. I guess that is my saving grace. Measure, then measure again is how I was taught.

    Thank you Flat Six Fix, your keeping my candle lit on this subject.

    Sent from my XT1585 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  28. hitek
    Joined: Dec 30, 2012
    Posts: 41

    hitek
    Member

    Well I do know one such option would be something like - E-Stopp Electric Emergency Brake with Remote Push Button
    http://www.estopp.com

    That will allow you to keep your original rear end and use an A833 transmission. I am not saying that this is the only option but it is an option.

    Tim Kingsbury
     
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  29. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,440

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Thank you Tim,

    I will certainly look into that. I am uncertain if I am going to a 12Vdc system. But I can always use an inverter if I choose to remain 6 Vdc. I think that I am going to stay focused more on building my two engines first. Then worry about extra modifications later. But in the meantime, preparing early is always a good plan. Gathering parts is more than half the battle.

    Sent from my XT1585 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  30. hitek
    Joined: Dec 30, 2012
    Posts: 41

    hitek
    Member

    I don't doubt for a second you can make a shifter for the r10 to make it a floor shift. My Dad build one in the mid-50s starting with a Fenton 3 speed shifter kit, but and key word here is But, it was not simple at all. The Fenton 3 speed kits I have seen don't work for the mopar shifting mechanism. There are a number who have made
    floor shifters for them. I have seen one on this board some time ago which was a little more complex than I think it needed to be, but hey it seemed to work. It is something we get asked about every year or two but haven't sat down and developed anything. George Asche and I did look at Dad's really close but the cost to replicate it just didn't make sense.

    But that is not to try and talk you out of developing something. In fact I really wish someone would. I will happily give you pictures and all of the information I have to you or anyone wishing to take a shot at it.

    Tim Kingsbury
     
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