Technical ? Of Old 6 Cylinder Engine Reliability

Here is a topic, that no doubt gets "hashed out" very often whether it be a Chrysler Flathead, A Chevy Stovebolt 6, or Ford Flathead V8, Studes, Hudsons, Ramblers could be lumped in too.

A lot of people out there, and some most likely on this here forum too, have a mindset, that majority of the aforementioned power plants, but specifically Mopar L heads, are necessarily reliable or capable of modern day use.

Most of these same folks choose SBCs for all there old car and truck projects, nothing wrong with that, no point of contention from me, use whatever "you choose".

I hear it all the time, oh when you swap in another modern engine, oh that would be cool with a 440 or hemi, etc. And of course it would be!

Now some of you know I have a 318/904 combo, that was bought to go into my 55 Fargo, to date no such thing has happened. It may never happen, but I never say, "never will it happen".

Was talking with a relative today, younger guy around 36, has a few projects, Ford stuff, all V8 stuff, has no experience with inline 6s, let alone a Chrysler flathead.

He has a belief that our blessed Mopar flatheads Chevy Stovebolt 6s and any other vintage engines are fragile, need to be treated with kid gloves and should only be used for restored antique purposes. Now he wasn't slagging these powerplants, just to him they are such old technology, they can't certainly be reliable for a lot use, including daily driver use, or travel across the country use.

I did stress these engines are very reliable, and can take a lot of abuse, when in good condition, that the 318 is a super reliable powerplant, but the little flathead 6s can certainly hold their own in this department. heck a 216 Chevy babbit pounder is pretty reliable, if you go easy on them, have had a few of those in my life. I have never owned a flathead Ford V8, but have driven a few.

So Lets here your stories, experiences, and opinions on this topic......

 

deja vu?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/235-chevrolet-reliability-modern-upgrades.999743/

 

Oh Geez Squirrel, and I read that whole thread too.........LOL
I guess I could have contained this to Mopar flathead 6s. I was talking about this today and got all fired up.
Well anyone join in if they like, can tell it's winter up here, not enough to do........yeehaw

 

I had a 251 dodge/Chrysler six in my old M37. I drove it everywhere. Through the bush on the highway at 60+ mph underwater and generally beat the shit out of it. It never missed a beat.

They are tougher than the know it all's give them credit for.

 

Now that's the kinda things I like to hear, thanx Dumprat

 

Took this video about 1/2 an hour ago, breather is off carb if it sounds funny when I revved her a bit,see next post

 

Video link not working

 

i'm old enough to remember the days when you saw two kinds of taxicabs--checkers and chrysler products. chrysler cars were considered to be "ugly ducklings," and when i was in high school it was easy to find a good runner for $25. really nice ones went for $100-$150. but they were tough!

 

Try this, it's now public....

 

Kinda hard to tell. Might be a vacume leak?

 

No my breather is on the work bench, no vacuum leaks, just sucking air the old dog...

 

LOL! Ugly ducklings, perhaps... But they looked pretty stylish compared to a Checker!

 

There are plenty of people that drive flat head 6 mopars all over the place. They put them in some industrial equipment like fork lifts for quite a long time as well so I'd assume they can take a beating. I don't know of any fork lifts that havnt been beat on regularly

 

Google Montana Dodge Boys, they can get you dialed in on the old Chrysler 6 motors. With a few oiling mods they are fine

 

Yup very familiar with Earl Edgerton, some very fine products. I am hooked up with the AoK Boys, with George Asche at the helm.I have not done any mods on this engine yet, it's a 251, 110 hp truck engine. She has potential for sure...running 3.23 gears in the diff, so she can handle some higher speeds...

 

Ex wife got a '54 Plymouth tudor wagon I bought from an airman that was shipping out, Sacramento McClellan Air Force Base, 1969. Engine was tired, smoked and rod bearing noise. (also typical low oil pressure)
I found a '49 Chrysler with rear body damage, an old couple had been rear ended, totaled this low mileage car! (14K)
I got the engine (Spitfire 6) for cheap, planted it in the Plymouth wagon.
Split the exhaust manifold, ran duals out the backsides, (wagon had an opening rear window)
My neighbor had a '56 Chevy, V8 stick...said his Chevy would just eat Cherie's Plymouth...
Raced him 3 outa 3, made $100.
Cherie liked her Plymouth with the new Horsepower...Good oil pressure, too. Drove that car for 5 years.

 

In 1945 my dad, mother, brother, dog and I left Philadelphia and drove to San Francisco on the roads of that time, in a '39 Plymouth. Got us across the plains and over the mountains. Lots of other people were driving similar cars. So they couldn't have been all that bad. maybe not up for 70 mph cruising on todays interstate. But plenty good enough for a daily around here. If maintained.

 

Had a client a while ago who works for the local animation house. I set him up with a 1949 Plymouth, 217 (head milled 0.070"), Scarebird discs, Explorer 8.8, a T5, and a 12V conversion. With my aforementioned Jeep Cherokee anti-sway-bar retrofit, it holds 75 on the freeway, all day long, but likes to wander on its bias-plies, and eject hubcaps.

 

Radials would surely help with that wander.
Think shaving the heads, and split exhaust may give the best bang for the buck with these engines...

 

Yeah, he does not want radials.

Shaving the head helped a lot. Stock compression was about 7:1. Hella low, for an non-forced-induction gasoline engine.

 

They were reliable in their day but passed their Best Before date when Cher was a virgin.

If they are in top shape , and get the appropriate maintenance (tuneups, valve adjustments, oil changes) and they can be practically as reliable as a new engine.

 

Great Posts, keep em comin

 

I think an engine using babbited rods and dipper/splash rod oiling and iron pistons would be potentially more fragile with lower safe operating limits than one using the more modern insert bearings and full pressure.

According to this Chrysler adopted insert bearings and full pressure lubrication in the early/mid 1930s.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/flat.html

About 1/3 of the way down the page.
"The big news for the year 1933, then, was the introduction of the Plymouth 6-cylinder engine. The valve-in-block engine displaced 189.8 cubic inches from a bore of 3 1/4" and a stroke of 4 1/8". With the standard compression ratio of 5.1 the engine, which retained the Silver Dome name, pumped out 70 horsepower at 3,600 rpm. With the optional aluminum "Red Head" the compression ratio jumped to 6.5 while the horsepower increased to 76.

The engine used a redesigned water pump for better cooling efficiency, aluminum alloy pistons and had a new first as it was fitted with insert bearings on the main and connecting rod bearings, as well as the first camshaft bearing. Power was transmitted from a 9" dry clutch plate through a three speed transmission with helical gears for smooth, quiet operation."

I believe Chevy sixes used babbit bearings and iron pistons until ~ 1953 in various models, despite having overhead valves since the original 3 main bearing 6 from 1929-1937.

 

LOL I drive a small block because I like going fast it has nothing to do with reliability.

One thing to bear in mind most of those 6s were still being used into the '50s and a couple into the early '60s. The speed limit was the same back then as it is now and in a couple of states you had open speed law. Contrary to popular belief modern cars are not better they are just different. Those old cars got driven cross country and or daily there was no other choice and they did just fine.

 

The flathead six dodge and GMC and other makes of sixes where used in many of the vehicles that helped to win WWII and they where driven to the limit.

 

Reliability on any engine that is in even half-decent shape mechanically is pretty much based on the externals, NOT the type of engine.
Good wiring on ignition and charging circuits, both primary and secondary, clean gas reaching the carburetor through a good filter, good quality (Echlin better grade, Standard, etc.) points and condenser with gap checked every year, and everything well grounded, filters checked religiously. Get the basics of fire right and anything that's not ready to throw a rod will run and keep running for a long time.

 

O know where there is a '48 Ford hay truck in North Central Missouri that the farmer put one of those war surplus GMCs in in '62, he has literally driven it allover the state since then. He drives it to the state fair every year loaded 130 miles one way. it has never had the head off. he said that there was nothing wrong with the motor in the hay truck he just wanted more power.

You and I are country folk we know how hard a farm truck works.

 

I hear yah Beaner, I am country folk too, Here meet Clyde, see what yall think of him,

https://www.youtube.com/embed/8GwiWNYdDLU?feature=player_detailpage

 

Cool
The Ol' Man had a Plymouth ( or a dodge?) coupe when I was real little and it had the 6 in it. It ran a reground cam and splits (asked him about it after I grew up) and it seems to me like it ran fine, of course I was really little so everything ran fine. LOL

I know that it made the trip from Portland to San Francisco more then once, with the four of us in it.

The key to reliability is two fold, good maintenance and not being wore slap out to start with. I think that is where a lot of the fellas miss it, they take a 50+ year old motor of unknown pedigree and try and motor it like they did their Civic. that aint happenin, it will pull its own weight but not if it is already shot.

 

Nothing like a 50 Pontiac straight 8 hydro winding out through the cornfield in low range..Or the 49, 50, 54 chev three speeds..Gees we were brutal, killed a u-jiont in the 49 chev and fixed it, the voltage rely cut out got tired and would kill the battery but a piece of paper between the contacts fixed that..The 50 and the 54 got cracked blocks from water freezing, we drained them but I guess some would stay in the block, they ran good still, needed water every couple hot laps..The Pontiac left with a little tired first gear from doing burn outs in the gas station next door.. My point being that they took all we threw at them; I imagine that treated sanely they would have gone a long long ways..Funny they all had good brakes, probably cause we never used them?