O/T...A dream I had about "electric" cars.

Maybe it was that thread on Neil Young but I woke up with an idea. I drew it and then went off to school. Anyway, the idea was a single cylinder motorcycle engine running at idle hooked up to a charging system. It was that charging system that provided the juice to the big ol DC motor. I know it's off topic but my curiousity wants to know what's wrong with that idea.

 

parasitic power loss and inherent inefficiency of the electrical generators available.

 

...yea, not to mention the parabolic isotopic shift that will occur when the transducers quadrangle themselves and they internalize all that parasitic power, thereby making the flux capacitors on each wheel useless...i.e. no motion. bad idea.

 

you mean shits broke?!?

 

What's wrong with the idea, is that you don't understand anything about physics.

A diesel locomotive works by having a huge engine powering a huge generator, which is connected by wires to huge motors that drive the wheels. If they could get by with a little motorcycle engine powering the generator, they would...unfortunately, the guys who design these things know about physics.

 

LMAO...that's the funniest thing i've ever read on here. i think that applies to the DEI setup from that fucktard in nebraska as well.

thanks for the laugh squirrel

 

i mean i guess you can make me look like a dick for asking a question but it didn't seem too outlandish. i'm not trying to route my exhaust back into my intake har har. using an engine smaller than one that would typically be found in a car to run a decent sized generating system. i'm not proposing any form of perpetual motion machine. i don't know the voltage and current requirements of a DC motor of this size and theres a big difference between a train and a 2500lb car.

 

I've just had 2nd thoughts....maybe...JUST MAYBE...if the continuom reached by the DEI fucktard meets the parabolic shift of the flux capacitor at the moment of the electrode probe insertion, the motion engagement parameters would be potentially (and argueably) reached and the fucktard DEI will eventually suck itself to death, thereby rendering the generating power of the dynamo useless...nope...it dont pencil....still a bad idea....

 

Probably not a bad idea... unless you factor in the flux capacitors....
But seriously.. I'm thinkin' (physix be damned) it'd be worth an experiment.

Here's my thinkin'. Why not an alternator type device at each wheel to generate power to charge batteries? Normal AMPS x 4.... and on top of that how about charging with braking (isn't their a hybrid that does that now?). so now we are charging when rolling and stopping.... Im' guessing the only weak point in this is the battery. Well that, and it will never sound like an evil internal combustion engine......

 

Go to school,study hard,pay attention,and it will all make sense.Oh ,and no more of this...LMAO

 

Smokey Yunick did that in an 80s Fiero, his HOT AIR engine.

 

Hey, I'm sorry....I just get kind of fed up with how little most folks know about physics.

Think about it for a bit. What you propose is to replace the normal transmission in the car, with a generator connected to an electric motor. For now let's assume that the generator and motor are 100% efficient. Do you really expect a little one cylinder motorcycle engine, idling, will produce enough power to move your car around? if it could, you'd probably have a little one cylinder motorcycle engine in it already! unfortunately that little one cylinder motorcycle engine only makes enough power to move a little motorcycle around, and it won't do it at idle, you need to open it up to get anywhere.

Maybe you just don't understand about volts and amps and power? There is no magic in electricity, it is another form of energy, just like the kinetic energy that is moved from engine to wheels thru the transmission, driveshaft, and rearend in a normal car.

 

Would you have energy storage? It would lose efficiency after the engine, so you're never gonna get more power than what the engine is putting out, unless you have energy storage. You wouldn't want the engine idling, it should run at an efficient power level. What you're thinking about is a series hybrid, which means the engine never puts power to the ground (like a train). A parallel hybrid can use the engine to power the generator and to power the car. I was somewhat involved in a Ford Ranger that had a VW engine and large generator in the bed, a motor and controller under the hood, a lot of batteries underneath, and a laptop computer operating it. It worked, but from what I saw it wasn't powerful or simple.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

i dig, just came out kinda snotty. i know some physics but not much practical physics. i know heisenberg and his principle and at one point i understood manipulating objects in 4 dimensions but there aren't many practical applications of that stuff. i don't understand exactly how energy is transferred. potential turns to kinetic when something is put in motion but i don't know how mechanical relates to electric. i know you can't get anything for free but i guess in my head i was running a few devices, gen or alt? i dunno, off a smaller engine (motorcycle seemed to fit the bill i.e. mechanical energy. those devices were wired in a way, i forget if series or parallel increases adds the current or voltage as it's been a while, but that would be able to support a modest DC motor. that's all. i'm an art major hah, total different side of the brain.

 

What it boils down to is that you can't get more energy out, than you put in. You can ignore all the generator/motor specs, and just think about the little gas engine that has to move the big car. It doesn't work.

As a couple guys mentioned, if you put some batteries in there between the generator and the motor, then you can do some interesting things. They call them hybrid cars...they don't get any better mileage on the highway than a normal gasoline car does, but they do get better mileage in stop and go traffic. The reason is that they use the energy that you waste when you use the brakes--to charge the battery. Then they use that energy from the battery to accelerate back up to speed.

If you want to get a better understanding of how normal car generators (and alternators) compare to big DC motors, think about the wire sizes. It takes a big fat battery cable to run the big DC starter motor to crank over the engine, but the generator has just a small wire connecting it to the battery. The starter motor uses a LOT of electrical power for a short time. The generator puts out a little bit of electrical power over a long time...you crank the engine for 15 seconds, and it takes 5 miles of driving to recharge the battery!

So your idea to power a big DC motor, from a small engine running a little generator, is trying to get a lot of power from a small power source. It doesn't work, you are trying to get something for nothing...in other words, a perpetual motion machine, and then some.

 

Yes, some electric cars can get energy from braking. Look up "regenerative braking". You might also look up "wheel motors". It takes energy to turn the alternators. What's going to drive the wheel alternators? What's going to drive the wheels? A rubber band powered car is a good analogy. You can't wind it up and let it unwind at the same time. Regenerative braking gets some energy back from what was put in to get the car moving. That's using "potential energy".

Thanks,
Kurt

 

You probably know it's not as simple as that. Motors and engines have significantly different powerbands and efficiencies, so they try to take advantage of each for the different driving modes, such as accelerating from a standstill versus cruising on the freeway. Modern parallel hybrids can constantly mix the percentage of motor and/or engine power being used. I believe the engines and motors are typically less powerful than a pure electric car or pure engine car, and they help each other out in the hybrid.

Go back to the train example. I believe it's more efficient to use an engine to turn a generator to power the electric motor than to use the engine directly, especially because of how heavy the load is and the starting torque of electric motors. It's probably also easier to transmit and control power to the wheels.

This isn't all directed at you, Squirrel. And, I could be wrong.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

how about this i seen it on tv the other day http://www.theaircar.com/

 

Throw in a battery pack and it will work.
The engine runs at the same speed regardless of what speed you are travelling. The output of the generator is designed to match the needs of the motor at design speed. Below design speed, the generator charges the batteries. For accelerating, and climbing hills the batteries are discharged. It works.

 

Yeah, I know it's not as simple as that. A hybrid can have a smaller engine than it would normally need to accelerate the car (because it gets a "boost" from the motor), which ends up making the car a bit more efficient in highway driving.

Still, they are limited by the need to go up long grades at freeway speeds, so the engine can't be as small as you'd probably want it to be.

Most cars have an engine that is quite a bit more powerful than the average power that is needed. In theory, a hybrid can get away with an engine that's just a little big bigger than average power needs. In real life, the engines aren't really much smaller. And the technology of engines and transmissions is so advanced that there isn't as much gain as you would hope....think about those bigger cars like the Vette that get almost 30 mpg on the highway, and still can get up and go very well. Running the engine at low rpm with the throttle open pretty far puts the engine in it's "sweet spot", and adding the complexity of a hybrid system won't gain much.

 

In this instance, let's pretend you've started with a pre charged "factory" big honkin' Battery. Much like a golf cart. This drives a central electric motor (not one on each wheel), turns all four wheel alternators... charging the big honkin' battery. And again, like a golf cart, when you're sitting in traffic it is not running until you press the "GO" pedal. Toss in regenerative braking as well... and you get a re-wound rubberband But then again, keep in mind I sniff upholstery glue for a living!

 

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alte...-01/An-Amazing-75-MPG-Hybrid-Electic-Car.aspx

 

The energy required to turn the wheel mounted alternators will be more than the energy produced by them, resulting in a net loss from the battery larger than the energy needed to propel the car.

No power system is 100% efficient. That would be the "Perpetual Motion Machine" that is so elusive. From my experiences with electric powered model aicraft, I do know that some of them are reaching 95% and higher efficiencies. I don't know if IC systems are approaching that or not. The biggest problem with electric powered cars is storage batteries. The technology is there to produce cars that make sense, but either the manufacturers are scared of them or are in the pocket of "big oil". Case in point, the new Chevy "Volt" that is coming out this year or next. 40 mile range! How sorry is that? An upstart builder called Tesla is about to start delivering a high performance sports car that has a range of around 200 plus miles! 0-60 in 4 seconds! It's a cool looking little car, if you like little two seaters.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

 

ryangobie, don't stop dreaming and questioning...
It's what makes life, hot rodding, and flying fun!

Keep studying and always keep an open mind, but that the basic laws of physics aren't going to change...

If you're into experimenting, check this link out below...
Novel concept, and was actually built...
A 16HP motor powers hydraulic pump for hydraulic driven kit car...



http://www.motherearthnews.com/Gree...-75-Miles-on-a-Single-Gallon-of-Gasoline.aspx

 

How many altinators can you run on one engine? Could multiple altinators keep a few batteries charged for a while?

 

Perpetual motion is so elusive, it's non-existant. Even the universe will stop expanding and eventually stall, or collapse back in on itself. The laws of Physics are so absolute, that, to me, they prove that God does exist.

Now, back to cars, the most one can strive for is to improve efficiency for motion. Efficiency measured not only in BTUs burned per mile, but also in emissions (waste) produced. There are vast amounts of BTU potential in a cup of water - Hydrogen and Oxygen - that if we ever harness it, it'll be as close to perpetual motion as we can imagine.

 

I'm not a know-it-all, I'm a fleet mechanic for the University of Arizona. I repair everything from big diesel trucks to 36 volt golf carts. I've considered a propane generator in the back of a small pickup charging batteries to run the DC motor on the drive axle. Its just not there. Too many inefficient components in the chain.

 

As many as will bolt on. And they all add drag. And the extra batteries you add will add weight.

 

electric cars are coming, maybe not as hotrods but as a way of traveling on short trips, the only reason you would put an internal combustion engine in the mix is to extend your range, i used to drive a 1970 chevy 3/4 ton to work every day, the cost in fuel per year was around $2500 then back 5 years ago, an electric track-t i was thinking of building would of cost me about $125 a year, you have to ad in the cost of the batteries but it still would not of came close to $2500 a year. today with the price of fuel i wonder what i would save?

 

Since we are talking "way out there"....Seems most electric cars are using old tech lead acid batteries. With the battery advancements in recent years, are smaller, more effecent batteries far off? I mean, the little battery in my watch lasts forever and is pretty small. I know it doesn't put out much power, but as a voltage storage unit it seems to work pretty well. I think the issue with the electric cars right now is with voltage storage. Maybe we need to be thinking about batteries.

For the guy that started this post, keep thinking out of the box, and try things. The experts told Thomas Edison he couldn't get light from wire. Gene