Technical ***November 2023 Banger Meet Thread - Shopping Season***

The Gravell HAL rolled out of the barn at Lime Rock Race Track here in Connecticut when Jim Haynes owned it. That was in the mid 1970's about 50 years ago time sure does fly by. Bob

 

i've posted this in the Ford Barn forum, but understand this is a different venue, if this is annoying, please read no further.

i want to build a 1:24 scale air compressor & water pump, both powered x a model A four cylinder engine.

Q: how would the coupling be made from the banger transmission to the two devices?

Q: could there be, perhaps using the factory transmission, a transfer case that would allow power to be used driving one or both pump & compressor.

Q: would the engine be powerful (in the real world) enough to serve both?

the entire assembly will be installed on a reinforced '28 Ford A chassis.

i am only interested in creating a plausible 1:24 scale model. if a 1:1 has never been made, there's probably good reason!

thanks

 

Are you talking about a Smiths air compressor?

 

i think that was a brand i saved in my internet search, but i would not be building a replica or a specific brand, just something when it was finished i could say "that would mechanically work in 1:1 scale".

 

If the B is stock it has positive flow to the main bearings. It has to be altered and a relief added for pressurizing. Positive flow is an improvement over the A’s gravity feed, actual pressure is an improvement over flow, insuring a consistent feed of oil to the hydrodynamic wedge. You can actually develop too much oil pressure with an improperly set relief valve, still satisfying the engines need but pouting an undue load on the engine turning the pump, some argue the standard 10 psi per 1000 rpm is too high.

 

As a Ford newby I didn't realise it wasn't real pressure fed, is pressurising a complicated job? Is there a thread on here showing how to do it?

 

Jim Brierleys book explain the process in detail
https://www.autobooks-aerobooks.com/product/4-bangers-and-me-color
You can get the book directly from Jim as well, I just don’t have his email handy.
It’s a great read and gives the particulars on pressurizing a B. We are all learning all the time brother

 

Take a look at first page of this thread for Jim’s contact info
J

 

Are there blueprints or detailed schematics anywhere for A or B cylinder heads? I have the urge to noodle around in CAD a bit and a cursory search didn't turn up anything useful.

 

I’m an unaware of any publicly available information. You could submit a request to the Henry Ford Museum for factory prints…

If you have a mill, a few measuring tools, and some patience, you could figure out the deck profile. The rest is up to your imagination

 

I might look into that. I have been to "The Henry"... hell of a place. It does seem absolutely bananas that there is nothing immediately available for a car with almost 100 years of history behind it.

Unfortunately, I don't have a mill, or much knowledge of manual machining, but I do have an imagination. I have been playing around with some of the new lidar scanning technology available in cell phones (what a time to be alive...) and I can obtain measurements that way, but the blueprints would save some trouble... and certainly be more HAMB-approved.

 

You just have to look under the right rock... For example, I just did a quick search for;

"ford model A engine cad drawings" and now have the cad file of a cylinder block loaded as below.

 

I did a quick search for "ford model A head cad drawings" and first on the list is https://grabcad.com/library/model-a-cylinder-head-1

 

Cool, and from there you can load the model into something like the free version of Fusion 360 and dimension a drawing as need something like this...

 

Yes, very cool,

Phil Damon had sent me some a while ago and they were spot on with dims.

John

 

The cylinder block model above is mine. If interested in the cylinder head, I can upload it also.

 

Well well now, you meet the nicest people on this forum. Very well done CAD model Phil. We all owe you a vote of thanks for sharing it.

 

You should ask to see a picture of Phil’s A mod
Very nice but that’s just my opinion
J

 

Well now Phil, I herby am asking... Pretty please..

 

Here are some renderings of my CAD models.
Stock Engine 11 by nomadpsd
Stock Engine 14 by nomadpsd
Banger 1 by nomadpsd
Engine Cutaway, Right by nomadpsd
Engine Cutaway, Front by nomadpsd
Engine Internals by nomadpsd
Chassis Assy by nomadpsd

 

Here are some more renderings. The Coupe body is a work in progress.
Coupe 3 by nomadpsd
Coupe w-18's 2 by nomadpsd

 

An interesting new video about banger babbiting.

 

Can someone tell me about that thing in front of the engine ?

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/dscf6665-jpg.5896347/

 

That is the DOHC drive housing
Hal had full gear drive or combo chain gear assembly
J

 

Thanks, it's so obvious now I know!

 

Over the years many different configurations have been developed
Even in recent years there have been some interesting developments

 

Any of you guys running a Frog Mouth Scoop? Thinking about getting one for my banger but wanted to see if there were any issues. Thanks.

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...s-vs-frog-mouth-scoops-pros-and-cons.1128095/

 

I posted some pics the other day of my Alexander OHV with its new valves and machine work.
I was digging around in my office today and ran across these pics of my vintage sprint car motor, taken when I dragged it home probably 20 odd years ago. I found it at the Nashville swap meet covered up under a table.

Here are some specs.
B block, once had a CRAGAR head, per the owner.
Built and machined by a long gone shop in Lexington Ky, based on block tag. Wombwell Automotive Parts. https://pergelator.blogspot.com/2016/03/wombwell-auto-parts-company.html
Babbit mains and rods in good shape.
Drilled B counter-weighted crank for oil to the rods.
Pop up pistons for CRAGAR comb. chamber.
Front drive Pontiac 6 cyl. oil pump for full pressure. Shortened and cam driven.
Side drive for mag (long gone)
AR trans with cut down splined AR flywheel with indexed timing marks and stubby shifter.
All steel plate multi disc clutch pack.
Big sump oil pan with through tubes for air cooling. There’s a ton of brass in that oil pan!

So, using my Alexander head……

Plan #1.
Build a replica sprint car. Exhibition only.
I have Essex rails, banjo rear with floater axles, new brass radiator, V8-60 front axle, shortened torque tube, race prepped Franklin steering box, 4 spoke wheel, rear gas tank, F&R springs and shocks, 16” knock off wires, knobby and ribbed tires.

PLUS an aluminum body, believed to be a Dreyer, with track nose and grille, cowl and tail. Just need dash, hood and sides. Body appears to be late pre-war or early post war, ‘41 or ‘46. Came out of CA. Picture from previous owner.





OR

Plan #2.
Use the Alexander in my roadster, replacing the 59AB with a built banger, but without the hard core race pieces.

Input and suggestions appreciated!
Hopefully you enjoy the banger porn.