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Non Oil Filtered Motors

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 2935ford, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,341

    2935ford
    Member

    Anyone not using an oil filter and just changing your oil more often?

    My '55 265 80k miler motor in my '32 pickup has the big oil cannister and not sure how much of the oil got filtered.
    I'm thinking of pulling it off and not having that bulking thing on the motor and just change the oil more frequently......
    It is summer driven only and not much more than 1k miles at that.

    Am I asking for trouble?
     
  2. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,458

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    No, you are not asking for trouble by eliminating that style filter. They are called "partial flow" or "by-pass" filters and only filter a very small percentage of the oil at any given time. They may be better than nothing, but not by much, if any.

    They were sold by dealers and parts houses, mostly as profit producing accessories, to a public eager to extend the relatively short engine life typical in the '30s, '40s and '50s.

    Engine life improved as time passed from more paved roads (less dust), better air filters, improved manufacturing materials, tolerances and most of all, lubricants and the adoption of FULL flow oil filters. In the usage you describe, regular oil changes will be sufficient to protect your engine without the expense and hassle of a cartridge type by-pass filter.
     
  3. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,341

    2935ford
    Member

    Thanks Hnstray.
    It's such a low HP motor and I'm not a speed pounder or hi rever.
     
  4. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,114

    squirrel
    Member

    Oil filters were mostly optional back then...finally, in 1956, Chevy started putting a full flow filter on the block. But they also had a block off plate for it if you didn't get the filter option.
     
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  5. flopalotofit
    Joined: Apr 1, 2010
    Posts: 130

    flopalotofit
    Member

    Non filtered , will run a non detergent oil so the solids fall to the bottom of the pan where they can be drained away with the oil change . filtered engines use detergent oils to help keep the solids in suspension so the filter can trap them. depending on your climate straight 30wt on a cool running motor , maybe 40wt if your temps are high and mileage is high. Hnstray is correct in all comments. Happy Trails !
     
  6. I have a race motor in the basement that has no provision for an oil filter. Back when this engine was raced (1320 feet at a time) it was common to change the oil every weekend, sometimes at a Nat when the racing lasted all weekend then oil would get changed saturday night.

    A lot of the older engines had no oil filters, they also ran non detergent oil and it got changed every 1500-2000 miles. They also seldom saw 100K.

    Your cannester can be replaced with a spin on filter, not a traditional solution but you would know that your oil was getting filtered.
     
  7. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,585

    krooser
    Member

    Bypass filters do a good job of filtering for what they are… much better than nothing (think about brushing your teeth twice a week vs. never brushing).

    I would caution you against running a non-detergent oil… if you like sludge and varnish build-up have at it. Motor oils have come a long way in protecting engines from wear… we may all like tradition but sludge and varnish are two traditions the 50's and 60's can keep.
     
  8. starliner62
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 114

    starliner62
    Member

    My son's 58 Stude had a partial flow filter on it and I took it off. We ran the car for over a year without the filter, changing the oil every 1500-2000 miles. The engine was already pretty tired and the last 1800 mile trip did the engine in, but the oil was clean.
     
  9. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,931

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I bought a new '61 Pontiac Tempst 4 cylinder. At the first oil change i was surprised to find it had no oil filter. Dealer told me I didn't order one, so I didn't get one. Had to buy the mount and put it on myself.
     
  10. The truth is many early engines didn't have filters or had partial flow filters. They also had to have the oil changed much more often and more importantly, they actually had schedules for cleaning sludge from motors. Ring Jobs were part of maintenance and in some cases as low as 20,000-30,000 miles. On top of that, as mentioned oils were non detergent which allowed the crap to sink to the bottom of the pan. My local auto parts storees don't even stock non detergent any more, but I'm sure some do. I would look at plumbing the block for a full flow conversion and hide a remote filter under the car.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  11. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 17,699

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    I say leave it in and get it chrome plated. 55 265's are cool.
     
  12. finn
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 675

    finn
    Member

    A bypass filter can actually do a pretty good job. All of the oil gets filtered eventually, just not on its first pass through the engine. Many modern class 8 Diesels have bypass filters in addition to the full flow filter. Part of that is for the extra capacity, but part is for improved filtration a low micron bypass filter can provide.

    Engines without filters didn't last long, and non detergent oils don't have much in the way of anti-wear additives either. Stick with modern oils.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  13. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,341

    2935ford
    Member

    I would leave it as is but I had to use an offset thermostat housing with a temp sender hole. So, to use it now I have to cut the bracket on it and move it over and fab a new bracket. I realy don't want to hack up a good part that maybe some restorer might be looking for.
     
  14. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,458

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    As expected, opinions are all over the map, especially in regard to oil. My opinion is, there is absolutely no reason to change from whatever oil you are currently using just because you eliminate the by-pass filter.
     
  15. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,341

    2935ford
    Member

    Hnstray....thanks. I might reconsider if this was going to be a high milage driver but it's not. We do not have a long driving season here and 1k-2k would be a good summer.
    I'm siding with you, I don't think I have a lot to worry about.
     
  16. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,155

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I thought all Chev V8s had full flow filters? I changed a few of those canister filters and they are a little more work than a spin on but nothing to commit suicide over. Wipe clean with a rag or cotton waste and pop in a new cartridge.

    Chev made an adapter to put a spin on filter in place of the canister. If you value your motor, any filter is better than no filter.

    Those big canister filters would go 10000 miles before they needed to be changed.
     
  17. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,917

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The 55 265 had no provisions for a filter in what we consider the normal sbc oil filter spot.

    One thing that most of the younger guys don't realize and I am calling anyone under 50 one of the younger guys on this is up until the late 60's gas stations were truly service stations and it was the norm to change oil in your car every 1000 miles if you really cared about taking care of it. I think at that time we had something like 20 gas stations in this town of which about 18 did oil changes on a daily basis on their customers cars.
    If you got 100K on your car back then you may just have got a photo of you and the car in the local paper as it was a big deal then to hit that 100K mark. Now a 100K mile car is just a regular work car for many.
     
  18. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,155

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    There must have been provision for an optional oil filter and full flow filters were available from 1947 on (Chryslers had them). Did Chev offer a full flow filter?

    You could put on a remote filter with neoprene hoses, not very expensive, and take cheap spin on replacement filters.
     
  19. Some of the older trucks and one German air cooled engine had plates on the bottom of the oil sump to facilitate cleaning of the pick up screen and removing sludge, this was part of normal maintenance. My 29 Studebaker was equipped with a sealed canister that served as a bypass filter. The maintenance manual states that if it became plugged after many miles to just ignore it.
     
  20. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,355

    bobbytnm
    Member

    The straight 8 falthead engines that Pontiac used in the late 40's didn't have oil filters. According to the service manuals they utilized a series of baffles in the oil pan that would reverse the drainback flow of the oil and supposedly would help any particles suspended in the oil to drop out.
    There was also a note stating that if you were involved in a rollover accident it was recommended to dissassemble and clean the engine.

    Bobby
     
  21. I get a kick out of reading those old manuals.
     
  22. If you are going to run without any filter, (I wouldn't) stick a strong magnet on the bottom of the oilpan to at least pull the iron particles to the bottom and make them stay there.
     
  23. Dynaflash_8
    Joined: Sep 24, 2008
    Posts: 3,016

    Dynaflash_8
    Member
    from Auburn WA

    My 56 caddy is bypass filtered. After 2k or when the oil looks dirty I change it.

    My model a leaks enough out the rear main bearing I just keep adding it. That motor is past it's prim though


    Sent via my typewriter
     
  24. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,458

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    On Chevy 6 cylinder, prior to the "new" 6 introduced in '62 Chevy II/Nova, the only 6 cyl with a full flow filter was some 261 truck engines. They had a large canister hung on the intake manifold with large diameter (about 5/8" ID, or so) metal tubing lines coming from, and to, block oil galleries. Any filters on 216/235 engines were the partial flow/by-pass type with itty bitty lines.

    As stated in a prior post, the early 265 had no provision for an oil filter at the lower rear of the block, but utilized partial flow canisters atop the engine, which is what the OP is dealing with. Later SBC's got a full flow canister filter at the lower rear corner, eventually followed by the spin on type.

    Fresh out of the Navy in '65, I went to work on the lube rack in a Chevy/Buick dealership and changed MANY of all types of filters utilized at the time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  25. kyvetteman
    Joined: May 13, 2012
    Posts: 762

    kyvetteman
    Member

    This is something I still struggle with. My '49 Merc flattie doesn't have a filter and it just don't seem right!
     
  26. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,341

    2935ford
    Member

    I also do not have a filter on my flathead in my '29 roadster.
     
  27. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Cosmo49
    Member

    A bypass filter will filter 100% of your oil in a few minutes, and has a greater micron filtration ability than a full flow oil filter, don't take my word for it, look it up on your computer. I have a '56 235 ci inline six, daily driver ONLY VEHICLE, that I have NO FILTER on the past 77k miles in twelve years. I change my oil once a season, so that's once every 1500-2k depending on how much I drive. Find something else to worry about, an engine is a closed system, any wear is from internal degradation so for peace of mind you could place a couple of strong magnets on the bottom of the oil pan.
     
  28. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,458

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL



    What a misleading statement! There is a hell of a lot of difference between the full flow 100% filtering of the oil BEFORE it gets to the engine oil gallery and bearings and 100% of the oil being filtered EVENTUALLY. Let's say, for example, that 10% of the oil is filtered at any given moment, which I really think is optimistic.

    Anyway, with by-pass, that means 90% of the oil is circulating unfiltered at that same given moment. So, just how effective is that, by comparison to the full flow? As for the micron difference....I don't know, but in my book, all the oil going through a marginally less effective micron size still beats a small percent of the oil going through a marginally more effective filter.
     
  29. finn
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 675

    finn
    Member

    Actually he's mostly right. If a small block oil system, for example, pumps about 10 gpm at 3500 rpm and has a sump capacity of 4 quarts (1 gallon), and the orifice for the bypass filter is sized to filter 10% of the oil, then all of the oil is filtered 10 times per minute or once every 6 seconds. That is alot better than no oil filter which is what the OP was asking about, if you recall.

    No doubt the oems have long ago determined that a full flow, higher micron filter is a better compromise than a low micron, partial flow bypass filter, partially because the oil pump can be downsized (better fuel economy, etc) since the bypass filter is effectively a controlled leak from the pressurized lube system. Again, remember the OP's original question
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  30. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,585

    krooser
    Member

    I DO know that if you add a good bypass filter to your oiling system it's likely that your oil will stay visibly clean for many, many miles.

    I have run bypass filters (in conjunction with the stock full flow) on several CAT diesels and my oil would stay a nice clear color for 50,000 miles. Without the bypass the oil gets dirty black in just a few thousand miles.

    Same thing happened years ago when i ran an AMSOIL bypass filter in my DD.

    Something's going on there...
     

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