These days, you "belong" to the NHRA and are a "member", with an assigned competition number; to accrue points you HAVE to have an NHRA number. My old number used to be 6999; the first number 6, stands for division 6. The number stays with the driver. There are 7 divisions in the US and Canada. Course there's only so many usable numbers, so now they can also include a letter in your NHRA number. I think it was probably a lot simpler back in the 60's. Not sure how racers deal with racing in NHRA and IHRA events, and what's done regarding their number in those situations. And back then, AHRA and NASCAR were still around too. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
56SD, So, I want to make sure I'm understanding properly... the '826' in my example photo referred to the driver's number as issued by the NHRA, back then? Gotta56forme/Scott
'56forme, For purposes of clarification and at the risk of over-explaining, I recall that it went this way. The driver number designators described by 56sedandelivery were first issued in the winter of 1973 for use during the 1974 season. Prior to that time, car numbers for each national event were assigned individually and expired at the end of that event. For example, my car number for the 1971 Winternationals was 1825 I/S and I only used it once. Local tracks assigned car numbers for divisional and weekend races and those were most often 3 digit numbers such as the one in the picture of the '56 delivery that you posted. The number would have been painted on the side window for the convenience of the spectators but reproduced on the windshield (and often on the rear window) for the convenience of the time slip booth (windshield) and the announcing staff in the tower (rear window). The earliest picture I have that displays my permanent driver number (7311) as opposed to a car number is from the trophy line at the 1974 Winternationals. I held the number 7311 from January 1974 until the beginning of this month. When I allowed it to expire, I had used it on more than 20 different cars in Stock and Super Stock over the span of 42 years. Division 7 numbers, as mentioned, all began with a "7". As far as I know, in this division, the original Super Stock permanent numbers all began with "73xx," hence my number 7311 was the eleventh Super Stock number assigned. Again, only in this division, the original Stock Eliminator numbers all began with "79xx." That system proved to be somewhat unwieldy and it began to break down fairly soon although there are a handful of numbers still in the hands of active racers. I know that at least 7304 and 7312 are still being used by the original Super Stock designees. In more modern times it has become obvious that no division needs to keep almost 130,000 numbers available (13 categories currently being contested multiplied by four digits from 1 to 9999) therefore the system has evolved to the point that "Johnny-come-laely" drivers are routinely assigned three digit numbers so that there is enough room on the window to display them properly. Just to complicate the situation and for the sake of historians, initially, the Division Champion in each Division was permitted to display an honorary designation that reflected their accomplishments during the preceding season. That practice has been continued and expanded to allow the top ten point earners in this division to use a number that reflects their finishing standing. Hence, I was assigned the honorary number "72" after a particularly productive year of racing. That only happened to me once so it's fairly well imprinted on my memory. Further, the National Champion uses the number "1" during the succeeding year. Nationally, the Top Ten finishers display single digit numbers (except for #10) for a full season after the award is bestowed. My sometimes suspect memory leads me to recall that we paid $10 for the original number with a $10 renewal fee that was due annually. Later, we were assessed an additional $10 each year to have that number assigned across categories, i.e. I was 7311 in both Stock and Super Stock during the time that I ran multiple cars. Today, due to inflation and the need to maintain the extensive list of permanent record holders, the annual fee for "owning" a permanent number has been transformed into a "cash cow" by NHRA and costs $110 plus an additional $10 per category to span multiple categories. I have no idea how many permanent numbers are currently held by Stock racers. I do know that, as of today, there are 345 names on the point earner list in Stock Eliminator and another 247 names on the Super Stock list. Each of those drivers holds at least one permanent number and not all number holders have entered a national event as yet. Do the math. Just as a currently running TV commercial suggests, "It's a cash cow. Milk it!" Highest regards, c
Mr. Norton, 'Liking' your post/explanation hardly seemed like enough to show my appreciation. Thank you for taking the time to write all that you did, and congrats on a long history in drag racing! I do believe I understand it now. Gotta56forme/Scott
So another 'Jr Stock Newbie' question, please. It's sort of specific, but I'm hoping by whatever answers I may receive that I'll learn more about what could & couldn't be done in terms of parts choices, modifications, etc on a car. So this working example is about transmissions. Let's use a '56 Chev 210 2dr sedan in 60's Jr Stock competition, for this example. There were three delivered transmissions in '56 for full size cars: 3sp manual 3sp manual w/od 2sp 'Powerglide' Automatic Note: In my reading I've picked up on the usage of the 'hydramatic' exception for the sedan deliveries (which lasted only so long before being... banned... by the NHRA), since Chevrolet had the SD listed in the truck line & literature - although the hydramatic was evidently not delivered in any SD, as I understand it. Trivia: In '57 cars, another automatic debuted - the 'turbohydromatic' 3sp(?). Questions: So during the 60's jr stock competitions could a '56 Chevy 210 2dr sedan only use one of the two manual transmissions offered in '56 for manual classes; and the powerglide for the automatic classes? Did the transmission have to date code to '56 to be used, or was some latitude allowed for earlier or later like 3sp's and Powerglides? Any other general info about transmission choices or modifications to be aware of for our example '56 210 2dr sedan Jr Stocker? Thanks in advance for any answers, Gotta56forme/Scott
First close up photo of one I have found. LOL I had 33 on my OT Cobrajet but from Lebanon Valley. Never got one at Connecticut Dragway.
"LeBrun engineering" A/S at Connecticut Dragway Original owner Astoria Chas was killed in Vietnam. Although a mere (L-88) stocker, the famous "Ko-Motion" car has been restored to like-new condition in the last few years.
ko motion was found in race condition ,,with time slips on the pass seat and time on back window..i twas not restored
Since Sedan Deliveries were built, titled, and licensed as "trucks" (they were't even in the passenger car brochures, only the truck brochures from Chevrolet/GM), and the optional Dual Range Hydramatic was available in trucks, NHRA allowed it to be "loopholed" into the class. When NHRA finally wised up in 71, and dropped them from use in the Sedan Deliveries, all those cars (trucks) took a big hit, and had to either use a Powerglide or a 3 speed manual. Some of those Deliveries got converted into "Wagons", to remain competitive in a lower class due to them weighing more (rear seats, glass, two piece rear gate, etc). 57 was the first year for the Turboglide transmission, as an optional transmission; the FIVE element torque converter and two planetary gear sets, sort of made it a 3 speed trans (it was more on a gradual gear change than an actual 3 speed. Not many of those got used in racing, and most got replaced with Powerglides after they went out (frequent occurrence). NHRA has now allowed some of the older cars back into Stock, and has even allowed the use of more modern automatic transmissions also. You thinking about building a Junior Stocker style of car? What I've referred to as Psuedo-Junior Stocker for years now. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
Scott, All good questions. 1. Q: Could a '56 Chevy 210 2dr sedan only use one of the two manual transmissions offered in '56 for manual classes; and the powerglide for the automatic classes. A: That's a qualified "yes.". NHRA rules of that era specified that transmission cases used had to be consistent with OEM. Also, they were restricted in terms of the number of forward gears. I have to admit that I don't recall any use of the OD 3-speed manual and I can't see it being much help so that's the "qualified" part of the response. The rule book had a disclaimer on gearing that basically said, what you do inside the stock case is none of tech's concern. 2. Q: Did the transmission have to date code to '56 to be used, or was some latitude allowed for earlier or later like 3sp's and Powerglides? A: Date coded parts were not a big part of NHRA tech. Casting numbers, on the other hand, have always been important. Transmissions usually didn't get much scrutiny as long as they didn't shift too many times during a run. (One constant in technical inspection has been the reluctance of tech guys to crawl under a car to inspect the transmission.) Anything that could be seen from the top was fair game so, because of the motor mount configuration on Chevies, the use of a cast iron 'Glide case or a bell housing with side mounts to the frame was pretty much the only option if you didn't want parts dragging on the track. Having said that, I have no clue about the mounting for the sedan delivery Hydros. Never looked closely at one of those. 3. Q: Any other general info about transmission choices or modifications to be aware of for our example '56 210 2dr sedan Jr Stocker? A: For 3-speed manual transmission Stockers, the most common modifications were related to massaging the synchro rings inside the transmission to facilitate faster shifting. Several people (Alex Jarrell, for one) had a thriving business in modifying the inner shifting mechanisms to make them more reliable and consistent. The changes usually focused on filing and/or removing teeth from the synchro rings. There are undoubtedly numerous references to this practice to be found in the literature of the day. I do recall that people usually carried more than one gear box and could swap them in very short order if need be. Wildcard trivia topic: In '57 cars, another automatic debuted - the 'turbohydromatic' 3sp(?). This is a most interesting subject. Common wisdom and customary practice have given the Turbo Glide transmission very little credit. It is seen in the Classification Guide with the designation "TG" in '57 through '61 cars. It is assigned the same shipping weight as the cast iron Powerglide. I am unaware of any successful applications of the Turbo Glide transmission. However, in modern times they did become a factor when NHRA decreed the approval of any transmission produced by the OEM with THE SAME NUMBER OF FORWARD GEARS AS STOCK to be legal in a given car. At that time racers pointed out that the Turbo Glide did, indeed feature three forward gears so Chevies listed in the Guide with a TG transmission option should be allowed the installation of TH350, TH400, or (even better) TH200 (metric) transmissions in those cars. It became huge political hot potato and eventually it was decreed that any regular production transmission installed by the OEM with ANY NUMBER of forward speeds could be installed in a Stock Eliminator car. Hope this is helpful. c
In 1964, I think that I broke seven three-speed transmissions over the season. And, as luck would have it, it was always the second-gear synchro that went. But back then, you could simply go to the local junk yard and pick up another Chevy three-speed transmission for 25 bucks.
I did the same in my 1955 Ford. Same problem LOL. Found that the Hurst Mystery Shifter had no over travel stops so I made up some and it stopped the second gear syncro problem that was caused by power shifting and driving the syncro rings TOO FAR onto the forcing cone. The stops fixed that and never had the second gear syncro problem again.
Once again, Mr. Norton, you have hit it out of the park. Many thanks for your wonderful answers. It does give me some insight as to what was permissible and what was expected in parts choices or modifications, I realize I and others could come up with a million & one questions about rules, parts, modifications, etc, so instead I'll ask this question... if racer-1's car got through tech, and before, during or right after competition racer-2 (or track/event officials) suspected/believed that something about racer-1's car was outside the rules by a little or a lot... what would or could happen if racer-2 chose to seek out a review of racer-1's car/equipment? Thanks again, Gotta56forme/Scott
Butch/56SD, It's funny you mention the wagon thing. I remember a day or two ago seeing a picture of a jr stocker tri-five wagon that was a 9-passenger wagon, not a 6-passenger wagon. I was left trying to decide if that seat behind the axle was left in for weight displacement; or... why it wasn't removed to lighten the overall weight of the car? If memory serves me correctly every 100lb's subtracted from a drag car is supposed to equate to 0.1 sec faster elapsed time, yes?. So, perhaps the 'third' seat was left for better weight displacement/transfer over the rear axle? Scott/Gotta56forme
A note about the Hydro's. There is a slight difference in the "angle" the mounts bolt in at the side mount frame horns. There were a few companies making a conversion setup to not overstress the frame horns. The Hydro's hung free, just like the Powerglides and manual transmissions. BUT, the Hydro's were HEAVIER! So,. combine the extra weight with the stressed mounting, the rigors of racing, and you had a lot of frame horns getting torn out. When I sold Kyle Marshall's 57 Sedan Delivery to Tim Pogue, AKA Junior Stock, here on the HAMB, I included the aftermarket Hydro mounts. Unfortunately, the Hydro that came SEPARATE of the Delivery was a rusted up POS, and was't worth trying to save. I gave that trans to Tom Willford (RIP) for the possibility of using some parts from it. Maybe Tim can post some pics of those mounts? Kyle's Delivery came with a Powerglide, and that's how Tim's been racing it. Lets address the fenderwell headers used by the Tri-Five guys at the time. There's plenty of room for chassis outlet headers in these cars, but in the Deliveries, with the Hydro, the starter motor was mounted with the solenoid on the BOTTOM, hanging down and preventing chassis outlet header use. The solution was fenderwells, and the rest of the racers jumped on them; primaries were usually longer and straighter. Junior Stock cars were required to carry a muffled exhaust, though it did't have to be connected; I think the rules stated a minimum of 16 pounds for the exhaust, after the headers. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
If I remember correctly, the Chev 3speed synchro drum had a cir clip in the front and when you shifted hard into 2nd, you forced the clip out of it's seat. We were running a 3 speed in the mid 60s and we got that we could repair that synchro drum between rounds. One day the sky opened up and out came the hand of god presenting me with a Lenco drum. They should have been standard from the factory. Never opened that tranny again. Warren
Some racers back then didn't know that the 6 cylinder 3 speed transmission had a 2.95 first gear as opposed to the close ratio Corvettes that had 2.20s. I'm not sure what the std V8 cars came with but Id guess maybe 3.54s. The pilot bearing hole on turboglides was larger then the normal V8 pilot bearings but you could buy after market ones that fit. I broke a crank at 6000 using a turboglide crank & spun the car out on a back road test session so I never used another one. That's how I knew about the size difference.
A: Protests are a messy business and life-long animosities have resulted from this process. Unfortunately, cheating does occur, therefore a system is needed. The only way to approach the maintenance of a level playing field is to institute a system of automatic teardowns and very thorough inspections. It is time-consuming and expensive to perform a complete teardown but that’s a way to keep people honest. Some of the most interesting moments of my racing career were associated with what went on “in the barn” during teardowns. Almost every track had/has some sort of procedure for filing protests and verifying legality. An up-front fee is almost always required and it is usually non-refundable. Protests must be filed within a proscribed time frame in order to be adjudicated prior to eliminations. Also, tech officials have the authority to conduct teardown inspections at their discretion. There have been inspections that resulted in the temporary confiscation of illegally modified parts. As far as I know, such parts were eventually returned to the owner. Failure to pass an inspection is grounds for disqualification from that event with the possibility for more extensive penalties to follow at the discretion of the Association. c
I don't know how many 3 spd transmissions I broke, but it was so often I carried a spare in the trunk. HAMB mobile app
Want to make sure I understand that statement: so the class winners always had to tear down under the scrutiny of an event tech to prove they were within the class rules, during your years of racing? Was it just the motor assembly, or did it include any other teardowns or verificatons?
In the days of Junior Stock and well into the '70s, EVERY class winner was directed to report to the tear down session. Potentially, there was a rough minimum of 25 to as many as 40 Stocker tear downs at every national meet if every class was contested. When Super Stock became a separate category, it created, potentially, another 20 to 40 inspections. In the event that a class winner was disqualified, the runner-up in the class final had a chance to enter the barn and tear down for certification. The engine specifications were the primary focus although there were additional items such as wheelbase, right/left variation, and body overhang to be evaluated. In the old days, teardown was open for business shortly after the class runoff. Motors were sealed at the scale after the final run and winners were "on the clock" to appear at the barn with the water drained for initial inspection in a timely manner and before removing any components. After the car was certified, it was usually put back together, fired, and driven out of the barn under power although some racers preferred to do the reassembly in the pits. I'm just shooting from the hip here but generally speaking the following items were on the list: 1. Carburetor(s) were checked for part numbers, disassembled and inspected for internal modifications, and measured at the venturi and throttle bores. 2. Camshaft was left in place and measured for lift, duration, overlap on one cylinder of the inspector's choice. 3. One set of valve springs was removed and checked for open and closed tension, spring diameter and spring type (inner/outer, outer/damper, dual spring, etc.) 4. One intake and one exhaust valve were removed and checked for material, type, weight, length, head diameter. 5. Bore/stroke were measured in the car. Piston deck height at the top of the stroke was measured. 6. One cylinder head combustion chamber of the inspector's choice was measured for volume. 7. One head gasket was checked for thickness. 8. Visual verification of cylinder head casting numbers, measurement of runner volumes, and inspection of combustion chambers for legal valve job and/or evidence of grinding. 9. Visual verification of intake manifold casting numbers and inspection of plenum and runners for evidence of modification. 10. Overall visual inspection of the entire car. In various eras, items such as body trim, interior trim, seats, illegal ballast, ect., were deemed to be critical. I'm sure that I missed something. Haven't been through a Stocker teardown for about ten years. I'm sure that someone will add anything I've left off. This should give you a general idea. c
Once again, another high quality answer. Many, many thanks for writing all that, I appreciate it. I don't wish to nickle & dime you with more questions (nor be thought I may be doing a hostile takeover over of the jr. stocker thread)... I'm left with two questions from what you just described, that I hope are simple answers. 1) from the time the car entered the post race barn, was tech'ed, then was back to running order... how long per car on average did that take? 2) if the class winner and the class runner-up happened to both fail tech... (pretty unlikely?)... what happened then? No class winner declared; or did 3rd & 4th place go back and vie for class winner? Iassume they may be each on their trailers headed for home at that point. PS: I've been starting to read classracerinfo.com to start learning more about super stock and stock.. I assume 'stock' and 'stock eliminator' are the same thing. Gotta56forme/Scott
Not to answer for Chuck, but say you had to pull the intake and one cylinder head off the car, you ( I )would not put it back together until you got it back home. What sucked was you spent all that time building a motor in as clean as an environment as possible, and now you have to pull the motor half apart in the pits , which was usually a dirty and dusty , and really sucked on windy days.
Mr Norton, I can't thank you enough for entertaining my questions. I really appreciate the time you took to answer with detailed information - Above and beyond my expectations. My sincerest thanks! Baron, I agree that seems like an almost unfortunate downside for overcoming the competition. Gotta56forme/Scott
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