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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Rich,
    Didn't Frank Iaconio run the Banana car at the 1969 Super Stock Magazine Nationals, and win over Laverne Berner's white car in the Stock Eliminator Finals.
    Both cars were classed in H/Stock (283/283HP Fuel Injection) (11.00-11.49 wt/hp)
    In 1970, the M/Stock class was (13.00-13.99 wt/hp).
    Right about those 57' Chevy's. Way Too Many Banana Combinations.
    (6) 283 combo's + (1) 265 combo
    pc
     
  2. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.

    Yes Frank did win the SS Nationals and a new Cougar was part of the winnings. He was still running the car with the 4 speed and a solid cam during that era. We traveled out to York with him at one event where Stahl had some headers for him to try. That weekend was basically a waste for Frank. The headers didn't fit and he broke a rear gear that evening.......next day at Island he broke something again in the rear after a major thrash to fix the first one......I had a splitting friggen headache! We were pitted along the side of the track behind the line. Very near to some new car that was being tested.....Eddie Schartman!! One of the first 2 flip top bodied, tube chassied injected nitro Funny cars if my memory is correct. Dyno don had the other one.....wow was that thing loud when your right next to it!
     
  3. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Rich,
    When did the NHRA prevent the 57' Chevy's (early Chevy's) from running 4-speeds
    or T/H automatic transmissions. 1970 ?

    J-P-O
    The 57' 210 Hardtop 2-door 283/270HP dual-quad, 4-speed weighed in at #3255 lbs. Had a weight break of 12.05 wt/hp. 1968 ran in I/Stock (12.00-12.49 wt/hp).
    In 1967, with the different weight breaks, it ran in E/Stock. (11.89-12.49 wt/hp).
    Local cars probably ran 13.50's in class.
    pc
     
  4. I've had some computer "issues" for the last week or so but I think you're right about the true driver of the woody. I didn't recall Sam ever talking about driving this wagon but his name keeps popping up with pictures of the car here on the interwebs. Was Sam Stockwell's wagon bright yellow as I remember? The only shot of it posted here so far is B&W.

    Shinabery did have an early 50s Olds 2 door that at one time at least was called the Marble Muncher. Black over silver as I recall. Anybody got any pictures of that car? It was featured with a couple other early stockers in Car Craft I think, in an article titled "It May Be Ugly, But It Sure Is Slow".
     
  5. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.


    I think in 1969 NHRA said the combination had to be an assembly line produced vehicle and 500 cars had to have been built.

    Numerous cars raced for years were basically "paper cars"....or were never made period. All the sedan deliveries had to remove the hydos. 4 speeds were never built untill '58 I belive in Chevies.....except for Corvettes. Turbo Hydro 3 speeds were not available either in some cars.

    Our '68 ChevyII had to be either a 4-speed or a powerglide....We never intended to race it as a stick but once we learned turbo's were not allowed we put it together with the Muncie......and had planned to change it to an automatic. We did not have much confidence in the powerglide and never did the swap. Turns out they ran very well. Bernie Agaman built one and it ran great.....
     
  6. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    1969 Biscaynes,

    1969 classification
    427/335HP w/4-speed = H/S (1970 = I/S)
    427/335HP w/automatic = I/SA (1970 = J/SA)
    427/390 HP = F/S or F/SA (1970 = G/S or G/SA)
    427/425HP = D/S or D/SA (1970 = E/S or E/SA)

    Not too many ran successfully with the 390HP engine. The 335HP and 390HP engines had the same pistons (10.25-1), #215 oval-port cylinder heads and Quadra-Jet #2901 carburetor. Only major difference, the #L-36 390HP engine had an aluminum oval-port intake manifold, and a .461/.480 hydraulic camshaft (335HP camshaft was
    .398/.398 lift hydraulic)
    pc
     
  7. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 349

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    Sam's wagon was bright yellow - there are a few color shots of it floating around.
     
  8. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 349

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    We still ran the 4 speed hydro in our sedan delivery in the 1970 season. musta been 1971 when they axed all those combinations?
     
  9. BadNews
    Joined: Dec 7, 2009
    Posts: 96

    BadNews
    Member

    You are right about the 390 hp version. Even today, when most hp ratings by NHRA are 5 to 15 higher in almost every application for my 1966
    Bel Air from what the factory rated them at, the 390 hp motor is rated at 370 or 371 hp. 20 hp less than the factory rating. I think someone in the factory was having a liquid lunch when that number was appointed to that engine.
     
  10. Skip Asay
    Joined: Jun 18, 2009
    Posts: 39

    Skip Asay
    Member

     
  11. Bob W
    Joined: Sep 14, 2008
    Posts: 687

    Bob W
    Member
    from Here

    I just sold my 57 Vette and have dug into the 4 speed thing a little. Vettes didn't get a 4 speed till around the first of May in 57, before that they were all 3 speeds. So Chevrolet through their parts departments had a 4 speed kit to update your early models. A savy dealer or parts manager could fix you up with the 4 speed in the Tin Cars at the dealership. They were not an assembly line option.

    My next question would be, why was a 4 door 66 Chevrolet Biscayne with a 283 2 barrel allowed to use a 4 speed ??? I'm sure none of them rolled off of the lines. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  12. WGuy
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 400

    WGuy
    Member
    from Central NJ

    Hi Skip,
    I've been researching this for a long time and my conclusions are that the 4-spd "option" was never offered in '57. By that I mean it was never an RPO that a dealer could send in with the new car order. Chevy DID produce all the parts to convert a '57 to a 4-spd, but the parts had to be ordered through Service Parts (the dealer parts counter). They were never delivered in the trunk of a new '57. The assembly plants did not have those "kits" in stock, waiting to placed in the trunks of cars; the parts were ordered by the dealer and delivered to the dealer for installation after the car arrived.
    Now, I don't how NHRA looked at it, but it's a game of semantics whether one could say that the 4-spd was "available" to the public (as with an RPO through the dealer) or whether it was available through the dealer to be installed on a new car before delivery to the customer..........
    I thought that NHRA required a run of at least 50 cars with certain configurations to be classified legal in Stock. How could Chevy have provided that information if that 4-spd option was never offered as an assembly line installed option??

    That's just my take on it from what I've learned. Interesting topic.

    Verne;)
     
  13. X-TECH MAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2009
    Posts: 317

    X-TECH MAN
    Member
    from Florida

    Same way these new Blown Mustangs and Dodge Drag Packs that are not street legal (no vins or complete cars) with engines that never came in a show room car delivered to the general public are allowed into stock today. :eek: NHRA just changed the number of units required for stock elim. from 500 to 50. Thats how the new 2008 blown Mustangs got in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  14. Simon and Biebel
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 166

    Simon and Biebel
    Member
    from N.J.

    There were many dealer installed options available back in the old performance days. Chevy was not the manufacturer I think of that offered the most items like that.....PONTIAC.....they had performance items by the train load back to the '50's McKeller solid cams and special exhaust manifolds were two things that come to mind....I had both.....a McKeller cam and T-395A exhaust manifolds for my '58 Pontiac at one time....The manifolds were good for a street car and way better than steel tube headers that leaked, rusted and generally were pretty noisey.....You could build a nice exhaust sytem off those manifolds and I did.....

    I knowa couple guys that had '57 Chevy's on the street with 4 speeds going all the way back to my high school days....but I am sure they put them in themselves......and that was the mid '60's as I graduated in 1965. It would not be hard to aquire the trans and a nice Hurst shifter. I don't think there was anything else needed to do the swap...maybe a driveshaft....Huge difference going from a 3 on the tree to a 4 on the floor......Nothing was worse than a mid 50's Chevy with a powerglide.....It always seemd like it was in the wrong gear......either to low or to high.....I hated them but they built them for years and years.....

    My Pontiac had a 4 speed auto.....
     
  15. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Let me see if I can get this straight.
    1957, Chevrolet offers (7) different V-8 engine combinations.
    283/283HP Fuel Injection (Solid Lifter Camshaft)
    283/270HP Dual-Quad (Solid Lifter Camshaft)
    283/250HP Fuel Injection
    283/245HP Dual-Quad
    283/220HP 4-barrel
    283/185HP 2-barrel
    265/162HP 2-barrel
    And offers (19) different body styles.
    That's 133 possible combinations. In manual or automatic.
    133 x 2 = 266
    Though some may be 'paper cars', those cars pretty much had all the National Records from G/Stock and up in 1968.
    In 1970, was it the NHRA that wanted the changes, or was it pressure from the
    Car Manufacturers to stop the fiasco.
    pc
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  16. Colesy!! You found it!!! WOW man I have been looking for that for a good 3 years.

    -Dean
     
  17. Just found and purchased a copy on eBay! Thankyou very much for finding that.
    -Dean
     
  18. Robert Wilson
    Joined: Nov 13, 2009
    Posts: 47

    Robert Wilson
    Member

    About the 4 speeds in chevrolets that never came that way from the factory.the way it was explained to me over 44 years ago. Was the parts book stated 57 to 61 pass & corvette. this went for any part that was available on a corvette or passenger car two four manifolds, FI units, cams. etc, thats why a 61 chevrolet was legal with a 270 hp 283 or any other corvette engine.if my memory is correct after all the years. a 1958 chevrolet was only available with a 4 speed if it had a F.I. 283. the parts book did not explain what year the parts were available for the corvette or passenger car. I hope the explication is clear. Robert
     
  19. Bob W
    Joined: Sep 14, 2008
    Posts: 687

    Bob W
    Member
    from Here

    That and the fact that people never looked at the body style letters, a Corvette up to 57 was an "E" car and in 58 they became a "J" car. 55-57 passenger cars were "A" 150 "B" 210 "C" Bel Air "D" Sedan Delivery. :)
     
  20. biscaynes
    Joined: Mar 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,684

    biscaynes
    Member

    thanks colesy! great article! :)
     
  21. BadNews
    Joined: Dec 7, 2009
    Posts: 96

    BadNews
    Member

    Thanks, Colesy! I had just purchased an old copy of the magazine this article is from. Sold it on e-bay afterwards. Thanks for letting me see it again. Love the big '66 Chevy stockers! Will see if I can get the one picture I have of my old I/S Biscayne. It was taken the only time it sat still long enough for me to take a picture of it (the motor was out!!!).
    It had the 7" cheater slicks on it and had the old NMW tow tabs and hubs.
    I sold it the same day the shot was taken. I lost out on a 390 hp 427 I wanted to put in to replace the 275 hp 327 that was blown. Got discouraged and sold it. I regretted it for a long time. Oh, well....
     
  22. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 349

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    Good eye, Colesy! It IS the former Ron Garey car in the pic. But it is a 69 photo and the car was then the Jim Wheeler driven Remlinger F/S. Garey campaigned the Smothers Bros F/S car during the 69 season! Anyway, thanks for the pic! Another shot for my collection!!
    Tweed
     

    Attached Files:

  23. BadNews
    Joined: Dec 7, 2009
    Posts: 96

    BadNews
    Member

    Colesy,
    Great shots! I never saw either of these photos before. Thanks!
    Kevin
     
  24. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Mr. 57' Townsman,
    When I stated that the 57' Chevrolet cars offered a possible 133 engine combinations, with 19 body styles and (7) V-8 engine combinations to choose from, I didn't mean 133 different car classes.
    Many of the combinations over-lapped into the same class.
    The general hot ticket was the 57' 150 2-door/3-passenger Utility, with a 283/283HP Fuel Injection. At #3156 lbs (the lightest of the 57' cars), it had a weight break of
    11.15 wt/hp.
    1967 = D/S
    1968 = G/S
    1969 = H/S
    Not sure how many of them were made from the factory. Hard to imagine a local grocery store or pharmacy buying one of the 283HP Fuelie cars for deliveries back in 1957, unless they were in a rush or lived near Fontana Drag City Dragstrip.
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  25. Skip Asay
    Joined: Jun 18, 2009
    Posts: 39

    Skip Asay
    Member

    Since I was only 13 at the time, I can't say with any first hand knowledge just how it came about but I'm going by what I was told by employees of the local Chevrolet dealer in the early '60s. According to them, they sold a respectable number of '57 Chevs with factory ordered 4 speeds, all of which came off the truck with transmissions in the trunk.
    When you think about it, that would be the only way that NHRA would allow them anyway.

    Skip Asay
     
  26. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Mr. 57' Townsman,
    Not to show disrespect.
    The 56' was no slouch either.
    20 different body styles to choose from.
    (5) V-8 engine choices
    265/225 HP
    265/210HP
    265/170 HP (automatic only)
    265/162HP (manual only)
    * Plus the 265/245HP Vette engine was permitted for use.
    pc
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010
  27. Bob W
    Joined: Sep 14, 2008
    Posts: 687

    Bob W
    Member
    from Here

    1957 265 cars were built as 2 barrel, 3 speed standard trans cars only by Chevrolet . If you wanted a four barrel or an auto trans you had to buy a 283. :)
     
  28. Paul Ceasrine
    Joined: Mar 31, 2010
    Posts: 387

    Paul Ceasrine
    Member
    from Wilton, CT

    Bob W,
    Still remember my friend running a 57' Chevy 210 2-door Hardtop,
    with a 265/162HP 2-barrel, 3-speed, in Q/Stock in 1969.
    Q/S = 19.00 - 20.99 weight/hp bracket
    Ran 16.80's with the 3-speed.
    Converted it to a 4-speed, and got down to 16.30's.
    Still couldn't get a Class Trophy.
    Paul
     
  29. 67 W-30
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 349

    67 W-30
    Member
    from N.E. Ohio

    are you sure about that? I always thought my dad's 57 4 dr sedan with Powerglide was a 265? They always told me the exhaust manifolds were the "tell"? 283 exhaust manifolds were different from 265's? Just curious --- ???
     
  30. Bob W
    Joined: Sep 14, 2008
    Posts: 687

    Bob W
    Member
    from Here

    I'm sure. In 57 265s and 283s had the same manifolds. 55 and 56 265s are different. In 1995 I rented a 265 55 engine out for a couple of shows, the small block turned 40 in 55.

    [​IMG]
     

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