Tim's first class win, the 15th US Nationals, 1969 against Jim Waibel. This must be the year of the "old guys"! Tim is up there in age with Ben Wenzel and Bobby Warren, both of whom have won this year. Good to see him win. We have been friends since we met hanging out at the Tastee Freeze in 1965.
I was told that you can't competitively build a stocker based on a preferred body style. The decision has to be based on the favored factors. Too many older cars are not factored fairly with the newer cars. Not much has changed over the years in that scenario. I just wish NHRA would give preferred weight/h.p. factors to the guys running the more nostalgic combinations. God knows the fans would prefer it. Look how popular the nostalgia drags thing is. Of course NHRA caters more to the manufacturers than to the fans I think ... sometimes! My friends 283 glide equipped '66 Biscayne could not qualify against the newer cars like the Mustangs. Everyone else seems to get the cars are favored due to sheer numbers of these cars. They'll just have to figure out a better engine/hp combo for the car for next year. That's what happened to me decades ago. By the time I built an A/S '68 Camaro 396 - 375 hp car, it was refactured. My choice (per NHRA) was to change to the 325 hp motor or Build it for Super Stock. Yeah, right! I ran brackets after that. Sold the car. Now I'm finding the NMCA Nostalgia Super Stock class much more interesting. Great body styles and competitive racing. No longer yawning...
Its not the factors so much of the OLD cars. Its the bogus factors given to the new combos by the factories and accepted by the NHRA. This joke is the worst that has ever happened since stockers started racing in NHRA. Even the 255/350 Chevy combo of 1969 wasnt this far off base. If they dont do something SOON you will have more people to race against in the NMCA.....lol. Nostalgia stockers will become popular or they will eventually be sold off to bracket racers foe pennies on the dollar.
Terry, we've both seen a lot of combinations come and go. I agree that the current situatin is an ugly one that begs an immediate solution but, from my perspective, the worst "joke" ever perpetrated was the elimination of Stock Eliminator in 1971. That one truly rendered hundreds of cars, including my own, obsolete overnight. c
Chuck, Absolutely correct. Ruined just about every regular Stocker car. Back then, we regarded the Super/Stockers as the the professionals with race knowledge and sponsorship backing. The Stockers, in the most part, were racers that had gas stations and general repair shops. The stockers were local and loyal, and supported the drag strip and general community. During 1973, alot of them disappeared. pc
When Tim Bishop won his class at the 1969 U.S. Nationals what class,engine and transmission was he running.
I agree Chuck....It had been so long ago it slipped my mind for a moment. CRS I guess. It didnt obsolete my 69 Corvette but the rule change turned it into a major parts breaker before the updates were allowed in later years and by then I had thrown in the towel, sold it as a street car and started working for NHRA and IHRA. Later (1977-78) I did build a pretty good SS/IA Camaro and ran at Gainsville and Bowling Green sports nationals until I got stupid and got married....lol. The money got thin after that, sold it and the rest is history.
Tim ran a 270 HP 283 with a T-10. I think the class was L/S and a year later was changed to M/S. The previous photo was actually taken at Englishtown. Below is the car as run in 1969 at Indy. It was literally finished while going through tech.
The solution seems awfully simple...... Double up the class designator for newer, computer controlled rear wheel driven cars. AA, BB, CC, etc. Leaves the traditional cars still competitive and fun for us old boys to enjoy. The best of the Indy stuff was the guy with the EF/SA (not sure what it was) who cut a .007 light and then ran .262 under. ?????? This was in the later rounds. Guess he couldn't reign in the gerbels under the hood.
After my first round loss in my G/SA , I went up in the stands to watch the rest of the first round of class.When one of the newer contigent of cars was finally beat by a older combination, a big cheer went up from the crowd.The A/stick runoff was great..Bob Fry was heard to say over the PA, that run might be one of the better runs of the whole weekend!!Ive gone from a top qualifier in the 80,s and 90s, to 121st this past weekend.Unless we see some major changes in the near future i will be a goner soon.
There is always IHRA as they run the new DP's and Mustangs in a seperate FI class away from the carburated older stockers. I dont know if you remember me or not but I checked your engine (yes it was legal) a long time ago at the Ill. National event when you were #1 qualifier as a "Pure" Stocker. Terry
Didn't the 57' Chevy's that ran in L/Stock in 1969 (13.00-13.99 wt/hp) run 283/245HP dual-quad engines. I think 1969 classes went for the 57' Chevy; 283/283HP Fuel Injection = H/Stock (11.00-11.49) 283/270HP Dual-Quad = J/Stock (12.00-12.49) 283/245HP Dual-quad = L/Stock (13.00-13.99) pc
I know the "In-Bomber" being a 283/283 210 Hardtop ran H/Stock in 1968, and I/Stock in 1969. "Good In-Tension" ran a unusual injected hydraulic cam 283 (270hp?) and I think he ran L/Stock with that in '69. It was a Bel Air Hardtop. -Dean
J-P-O, The 1957 Chevrolet engine combo's ran; 283/283HP Fuel Injection w/10.5-1 compression 283/270HP Dual-quad w/9.5-1 283/250HP Fuel Injection w/9.5-1 283/245HP Dual-quad w/9.5-1 283/220HP 4-barrel w/9.5-1 283/185HP 2-barrel w/8.5-1 pc
J-P-O I think the 210 2-door Hardtop could run in L/Stock in 1969 and M/Stock in 1970 with either the 283/250HP Fuel-injection or the 283/245HP Dual-Quad. I think the advertised weight was #3255 lbs. pc
J-P-O In 1968, the Belair Coupe with the 283/270HP dual-quad ran in I/Stock. There were alot of them The 1968 NHRA Winternationals Stock Eliminator winner was John Barkley, in a 57' Chevy 283/220HP, classed in M/SA. Winning E.T. (14.59) I think both the Belair Coupe and Sedan fit into M/SA. pc
Frank Iaconio ran his yellow Banana car in M/SA with the 283/250hp hydraulic cammed fuelie with good success.This was after the 4 speeds were no longer allowed in anything but the Corvette's. I recall him getting the frist set of those super soft Firestone tires that came out for automatics and running them with the powerglide......We borrowed them on our stick car for one run at York in 1970......The engine bogged bad as I had also changed the trans to a 2.20 first from our normal 2.5 box.... A '57 was a great car to race as it had a ton of engine combo's and before they knocked out the 4 speeds and hydros there were likely more of them than any other car out there racing......
In 1969 and 1970, what stock and super stock classes would a '69 Biscayne with 427/425, 427/390, and 427/335, both stick and auto fall in?
The Jalopy Journal
