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Newbie needs motor advice

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by custer0045, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. custer0045
    Joined: Feb 23, 2013
    Posts: 8

    custer0045
    Member
    from Washington

    I'm new to this forum stuff so I hope I'm doing it right. Anyways I am building a 406 sbc and am looking for advice/info.
    Here's my proposed combination

    Gm block, splayed main caps
    Afr 220 heads
    Forged balanced assembly 11-1 comp
    Comp hr 300 magnum cam
    304 dur .600 lift 110 lsa .244@50
    Comp magnum rockers
    Morel lifters
    Victor jr I take
    Mighty demon 850 carb
    Msd 6al ignition
    1 3/4" headers
    3" exhaust
    So any estimates on hp or advice on parts would be appreciated
     
  2. MoparJoel
    Joined: May 21, 2012
    Posts: 860

    MoparJoel
    Member

    Stop! you are not doing it right... Go to the Introduction page, read they sticky at the top of the page, then do A proper introduction, It is required before posting on the HAMB.
     
  3. Cam tooooo small,switch carb for a real Holley,Super Vic. intake,Chad Speier heads not AFR...Listen to speier on heads & intake/carb and talk to Mike Jones for a cam,then you will have 600 h.p. combo on pumpgas!
     
  4. custer0045
    Joined: Feb 23, 2013
    Posts: 8

    custer0045
    Member
    from Washington

    I guess I should have been more specific, I already have the short block and heads, deal was too good to pass up. Everything else is open game though.
     

  5. A .600 lift & 300 duration cam is too small?
     
  6. custer0045
    Joined: Feb 23, 2013
    Posts: 8

    custer0045
    Member
    from Washington

    I'm also having trouble finding the proper intro page, like I said I'm a noob
     
  7. custer0045
    Joined: Feb 23, 2013
    Posts: 8

    custer0045
    Member
    from Washington

    Gotcha, thanks for the link
     
  8. custer0045
    Joined: Feb 23, 2013
    Posts: 8

    custer0045
    Member
    from Washington

    I suppose some details on the car might help too, it's a 71 camaro, th400, 4.56 12 bolt and 3" dual exhaust with flow master 40 series mufflers
     
  9. black 62
    Joined: Jul 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,895

    black 62
    Member
    from arkansas

    not enough for a race car---just right for a real pain in the ass street car---i like it ---change bodies...
     
  10. custer0045
    Joined: Feb 23, 2013
    Posts: 8

    custer0045
    Member
    from Washington

    It's a weekend driver, so fuel mileage and street manners are low on my list of priorities.
     
  11. oldsmobum
    Joined: Apr 26, 2012
    Posts: 45

    oldsmobum
    Member

    My buddy is building almost the same exact engine. I willl list specs, but any of these could be way off, because he has been between like 3 builds so far. If I'm not mistaken, his camshaft is more like .700" lift, and about 280 @50 duration. I could be wrong on that, I don't listen as well as I should. He is running a super victor intake, and I think a 1050 carb... I'll edit this post tomorrow after I've asked him. Anyway, the top end came off another motor that was dyno'd at 600 or so horsepower on the fly naturally aspirated at about 15:1 compression ratio I think. he wants to run more around 11:1, and has lowered his expected hp output, and his car will be streetable but barely.
    Keep in mind you will get 3-4 mpg, and his cam card called for something like a 4500 rpm stall converter. His car WILL be a pain in the ass on the street, and all that horsepower requires proper brakes/steering/traction or you will break your ass!
     
  12. custer0045
    Joined: Feb 23, 2013
    Posts: 8

    custer0045
    Member
    from Washington

    The car came with subframe connectors, traction bars, adjustable shocks, disc brakes in the front. It also had an auto gear 4speed but I pulled that because I feared breaking it. Anyways once I figure out my motor and cam I'll be most likely buying a coan converter. Sounds like your buddy has a pretty badass motor. Thanks for all your help so far
     
  13. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,908

    brokenspoke
    Member

    You need to read rules dude....pre 65 only
     
  14. derbydad276
    Joined: May 29, 2011
    Posts: 1,321

    derbydad276
    Member

    my advice would be ....


    sell the o/t camaro

    buy a 64 nova put a a straight axel under the front of it ,
    ladder bars in the rear
    add a set of pie crust slicks with fenderwell headers and we will let you stay
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  15. kracker36
    Joined: Jan 21, 2012
    Posts: 756

    kracker36
    Member

    Well, since you asked. A forged crank and rods are a complete waste of money ( and weight ) unless you are building a dedicated track car. My cylinder head machinist just retired a 383 SBC after 5 years of drag racing almost every weekend. ( he guessed close to 5000 1/4mile trips ) LOTS of passes with a cast eagle crank, cast I beam rods, and Hypo pistons. A forged crank is not designed for everyday street use. Argue with me please,but the 400 dollar difference in cranks can go towards a better valve train or cylinder heads.
     
  16. GassersGarage
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 4,728

    GassersGarage
    Member

    1971? :eek: Me thinks you're on the wrong forum.
     
  17. lht
    Joined: Jan 18, 2013
    Posts: 243

    lht
    Member

    hey what ya gonna due with 4-speed i'm interested if your not using it
     
  18. oldsmobum
    Joined: Apr 26, 2012
    Posts: 45

    oldsmobum
    Member

    Not to argue the virtue of a cast crank, because I have also seen real world instances where a cast crank was used in a high performance application with no issues (the Crusher Camaro for one, as I've been told by a buddy at HRM), but I would like to argue that a forged crank is not designed for everyday street use. How so? Keep in mind, a lot of our "traditional" Motors came with forged bottom ends from the factory! And you'll be lucky to find a crank from an early olds or 283 that doesn't already have a million miles on it!
     
  19. gemcityrenegade
    Joined: Jun 9, 2007
    Posts: 171

    gemcityrenegade
    Member

    Don't listen to this guy.;) I've got a 79 Trans Am with a 4 bolt 385cu SBC scat forged 3.75" crank and 7/16 arp I beam rods and Probe SRS forged pistons. On top I already had some Iron Eagle 230cc heads and air gap with a 3 inch rise topped with an 850dp. I was running some .510 isky loper. I ran on cheaters at the track spinning off the line and about 7100 through the traps and this happened the 9th run. I built the motor at my local community college over 9 months. I did everything to the wire. Homework out the ass and documented everything. All gone in the 3rd week of having it in the car. Now I have this nice $7000 end table wine rack..:cool:
    www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-chit-chat/761306-expensive-table-wine-rack.html?highlight=

    Even though I was well with in the rpm and HP for the parts the rod still let go. Spend the most money you can afford on your bottom end. It's insurance should anything go wrong. There is no difference in driveablity other than a little weight which is often offset by lighter pistons and knife edge cut cranks.

    After I blew the engine in violent fassion I reluctantly got the same rotater kit from scat at cost wishing I could upgrade to the H Beams but didn't have the money.. Since I had the 280cfm something flowing big heads and top end, for more power, I decided to go with a solid roller (street roller)kit with a cam that is a cast grind, 818 roller lifters and 977 springs, all from Comp. It was also very cheap as the vendors though the school felt bad for me and gave me the cam kit at cost, so I went with it. Same ported heads, intake and carb all rebuilt. Turd made 490 on the dynojet at school. Had I known what I was doing tuning and jetting, I feel I could have gotten 500hp.

    Build thread I never finished on 2nd solid roller motor.. but some good info, pics and vids
    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/762603-385-solid-roller-sbc-built-scratch-pics-tech-inside.html

    2nd engine solid street roller cam card. Note: I'm running 1.52 rockers so it's about a .576 lift. Also note: the first engine I was running 1.6 rockers with the .510 flat tappet Isky so there was also more lift.
    http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=306&sb=2

    2nd Engine done
    [​IMG]


    2nd engine after I found out why my oil pressure was dropping while on the gas. I didn't have money for a good pan and windage tray set sup so I got that cheapo moroso 7qt. What was happening was when the crank would hit the 7-8 quarts of oil I put in there, thinking there wasn't enough, it would cavitate big time and let air into the system dropping my oil psi down to like 10 or 20 for a second til I let off the gas. I hunted this down for months babying the thing and posting on message boards. Finally I was told to drain the oil and start with 4.5 quarts adding until it happened again then let some out. That day I got more pressure and more power so I celebrated with some smoke..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVcDKsVLSN0

    You have more cubes and better heads. I'd build it with a real solid roller cam (not cast core), huge lift and duration. I'd go with titanium "what you can afford" (since your gear will have you spinning around 7k) (Retainers at least). I would run the Isky Redzone lifters as they're bushed and not needle bearings like the comp 818's. And try and go for 600hp knowing you won't get it with the street gas friendly flat top pistons and stock block. Be happy with the 550 you'll get and know that you spent money where it counts. If you don't like the cam no biggie. They're cheap and so are springs. Run the big nasty and if it's too nasty then toss it and build a pop up motor later with it. If you listen to the guys on the phone and internet they'll say to be safe and go with the mild grind like I did. Wish I had way more cam.. But don't listen to me either cause I'm no engine builder by trade. I'm just a broke guy who likes to have bad ass shit so I have to do it myself.. sometimes twice:D
     
  20. kracker36
    Joined: Jan 21, 2012
    Posts: 756

    kracker36
    Member

    Yea, dont listen to me. Build an all out drag racing motor for a daily driver. He said this: "It's a weekend driver, so fuel mileage and street manners are low on my list of priorities."
    Sure, some stock type engines had forged cranks, but when buying a NEW crank for a weekend driver, it is a complete waste of money.
     
  21. BobMcD
    Joined: Jan 25, 2013
    Posts: 322

    BobMcD
    Member

    Starting at the beginning. What do you plan to do with it?
     
  22. lht
    Joined: Jan 18, 2013
    Posts: 243

    lht
    Member

    go big block more torque less r's you can run a more reasonable street cam and still make more power
     
  23. gemcityrenegade
    Joined: Jun 9, 2007
    Posts: 171

    gemcityrenegade
    Member

    First off, the op's motor and my motor are not even in the same city as a drag race motor. These are what's called hot street motors, week end warriors. With these motors we sometimes do stupid burn outs. Often times they get over reved and beat to shit every single time they're driven. When pushing 500 or 600 hp through a stock block most people would spend the little extra coin and put a stronger crank, rods and pistons in there to protect their investment. You do know there is a difference between a Scat/Eagle forged street rotater kit for around 2 grand that includes rings, bearings, pins, other and a high end crank that itself alone costs 2 grand.

    So let's say he gets the cast kit for 600 and revs it to 7000rpm though the traps, maybe it lets a rod go or a little denotation turns a hyperutectic piston into about 100 pieces. When buying a bottom end you're not just saving the 1400 bucks buying the cast. It's about the money you have in the whole thing;machine cost of the block, all the little parts that nickle and dime you. Then you've got the top end. When that piston lets go is it going to take out the heads? Knowing you were going to beat the ever loving piss out of a motor that makes 550hp with 4.56 gears at the track would you risk it (all that money and time plus maybe your car and life)? Not me. I'll spend the little extra money..

    Put put the t bucket around town with the grand kids do a burnout once a year for your buddies-get the cast
    Try and run 11's at the track get addicted to racing and spray into the 10's-spend the money

    He already said he had the short block anyway so.. He's gonna run what he brung.. I say go big solid roller cam. The lifters of today have solved most of the oiling issues with a solid cam on the street. Don't be scared..
     
  24. kracker36
    Joined: Jan 21, 2012
    Posts: 756

    kracker36
    Member

    Google Kip Martin. 289 Ford with a stock 1M cast crankshaft. Launches at 9200 rpm. BUT----its a Ford.:p
     
  25. 4Thgentruck
    Joined: Feb 26, 2013
    Posts: 11

    4Thgentruck
    Member

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