Projects New Project: 1953 Oldsmobile

Beautiful car
Three thoughts -

1.I don't trust the entire fuel line at all, the crud in there would be non-polar in nature so alcohol would not wash it out . Get a new steel fuel line, or temporarily run a rubber one all the way back. Deposits could still be in there ,or flakes of rust that break loose at different times. (You could even get a 10 gallon plastic fuel cell from Summit and place it in the trunk. But don't run a rubber line through a hole in the trunk without a grommet)

2.I read all the updates never saw a mention of the carb, if it was ever rebuilt, if it is older and now that you've got some fresh ethanol/gas miles under your belt it is possible the old needle valve seat and rubber parts are dissolved or swollen. and/or there's now some dirt in the carb. Only takes one speck.

3.I'm leery of trying to engineer return lines, multiple pumps, filters...the Olds 455 never needed that from the factory. Fix a factory style set up ---4-6 psig at the carb, one returnless fuel pump, rebuilt carb or new carb, and a new fuel line back to front. Also might be interesting to see what a vacuum gauge shows on the idling engine...

Then this will go away. When you first got this car it had other problems but always ran fine. What has changed?

idea: get a craigslist beater - Cavalier, Olds alero, so this thing won't keep making you take 4 mile hikes....on the way to/from work

 

Think it's sucking air between tank and pump.

 

just a stupid thought.....have you removed the gas cap and tried to run the car?
Could the lack of fuel be leaning out the engine which will usually make them run hotter?
have you pulled your plugs to check the color just for grins?
Have you checked the timing also?
If it were me (and it is not, I know) I would put the darn gas can in the front seat with a hose running out the window and under the hood (which is not latched all the way), connect it to your std. Olds pump and see what happens. And I would also agree that the carb is most likely crudded up. Does not take much to effect the operation. If you do this report back what you find.

 

If it was my car, (which I wish it was) I would replace all the fuel line back to the tank with new metal line. I always use copper as it bends much easier and is readily available everywhere. I would pull the gas tank and pull the dip tube out and look that over carefully for a defect. Put your finger over the bottom of the dip tube and blow in the top of it and see if it has any leaks, which would cause the pump to suck air. Remove the electric pump and plumb it to the factory pump. Also as said try running it without the gas cap, the vent may be plugged.

 

Dip tube in tank sucking trash? rust?

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Hey, sorry for the late reply all. Left my phone at home for a couple days while I was gone, and today I’ve been back on the Olds.

So here’s what I’ve done so far:

I’ve gone back to the original fuel pump (no return). I’ve simplified the garbage under the hood. And finally, I’ve used the rubber fuel line I ran to the fuel tank for a return as my new fuel line. Haven’t been for a drive yet, but things are looking promising. Fuel pressure holds at a steady 4.5 psi, and when I rev it, it’ll jump up to 5-5.5 psi. Before it would immediately drop to 3 psi.

Can’t go for a drive right now. It’s raining pretty good here and I don’t feel like getting stranded in the rain (though it might be less hot).

I’m sill thinking about going with an electric fuel pump. I’ve still got the $50 Edelbrock from O’Reilly’s. Not sure if it’s decent or not. I don’t know much about them. Is a $150 Holley worth the money?


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Do a search on this forum about electric fuel pumps...there's a tone of old and newer info here. I used that info to make my decision on an electric pump...believe I bought a carter pump.

 

Fingers crossed!

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Well, test drive didn’t go as well as I hoped. Fuel pressure was more consistent, so I think the line for sure needs to be replaced. Car didn’t leave me stranded, so that’s another plus. Fuel filter is still practically empty by the time I’m home. Fuel lines are super hot to the touch. Pressure still drops below 3 pounds every now and then, but usually goes back to 4.5/5 under acceleration.

I guess I’ll order an electric pump and ditch the mechanical. Maybe that’ll work.


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In this thread from Fat47 on his big block build there is info regarding vapor lock in post #136
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1949-buick-sedanette-build-picture-heavy.1013237/page-5
Apparently, GM installed a pump with a return line on all AC equipped engines to avoid vapor lock. As mentioned the return line port is directly connected to the normal pump chamber so there is good reason to suspect that it will reduce the pressure to the carb as fuel will take the least path of resistance starving the filter and carb. Therefore, it would appear that some sort of reducer would be required to restrict the flow of gas thru the return line.
Food for thought maybe, don't know if this helps but all info is good in these situations.

 

Why go with an electric pump when the stock one worked in the original application just fine? On thousands of cars, over thousands of miles. When the fuel pressure goes below 3 lbs does the engine still run good? Is it when it's at idle or coasting? If yes to all, it may be all the fuel pressure the engine needs at the time. I think maybe you should be trying to get the under hood temperature down instead of getting more fuel pressure.

 

So, I’ve got more of a bandaid than a solution, but it works.

Took the car out yesterday, pressure did better with the new fuel line, but still dropped to 2ish pounds every now and again. When I got home, filter was empty.

I added an electric pump in-line off the frame near the fuel tank. When the pressure drops, I flip a switch to bring it back up, then switch it off again. Went for a longer drive and still had a full filter when I got back.



I’m going to add a fuel pressure regulator for the electric pump next. 9 psi is too much for that carb. It’d be nice if I could just leave the electric running and not have to constantly monitor the pressure.

I still think heat is an issue. I’ve got a fan shroud on the radiator, so the fan collects all the heat and practically dumps it on the fuel lines. I may see about adding sort of a down spout on the shroud to get the heat away from the lines.


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The last time it dropped below 3 pounds, I gunned it to see what would happen. Engine died and I couldn’t get it started again. Hopefully the electric will take care of that.

I’m definitely looking at ways to get the heat down.


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I don't understand why it gets so hot under the hood with a louvered hood. Can you post a picture from the front with the hood open? Is all the stock tin on in front and above the radiator?

 

Here’s what I’ve got:



View attachment 3943120

The air coming off the fan is what seems hottest to me. I’ve been dailying the car for about a year now, but last summer I had a truck I’d take my kids around in because it had ac. Now I don’t have a choice. This is the first summer the car has been driven regularly in, and summer here can be a bitch.

 

Not sure why that last photo won’t show.



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I was thinking a shroud here would help a lot by pointing the air down.


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Does the car run hot? What do the gauges tell us? Forgive me if you already mentioned this, read most of the thread and got bogged down. how ya doin', healthwise?

 

Car will usually run 180/190. Highway speeds it’ll hit 220. From what I’ve read, that’s perfectly normal for this engine.

A thought just crossed my mind, I’ve got a shroud around the fan now that directs the air through the radiator. Maybe I should try removing that so it won’t direct the air right on to the fuel lines?

Health is good. Just had a stent removed (holy shit, worst thing ever). Pretty much just down to keeping an eye on labs with occasional appointments. Thanks for asking!


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First off I'm not a fan of electric fans. Look at the space that fan hub takes up blocking air flow compared to the hub on a mechanical fan with a spacer, to get the blades into the shroud. I wonder if a mechanical fan would move more air through out the engine compartment. Is there anything on the lower sides of the engine, blocking the air from leaving the engine compartment? Maybe louver the inner fenders. Have you tried wrapping the fuel line in the engine compartment with aluminum foil all scrunched up for a heat sink?

 

I haven’t used aluminum foil on the fuel lines, though I’ve been looking at some different options. I tried header wrap with no improvement.

I’ve thought about a mechanical fan, but didn’t think there was enough room. Pretty sure I’ve got one lying around I could try. What do you think about losing the current shroud so the air isn’t blowing directly on the fuel lines?


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Maybe the fan is a part of the problem. Shouldn't it run cooler running down the freeway than in traffic? Still those temps seem pretty good. Maybe it's not vaporlocking. Not much help , I know, lol.

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The current shroud is helping the fan use all of the radiator core, keep it. Try the mechanical fan, after removing the electric one. Get the blades about 1/2 to 3/4 into the shroud. Sounds like you need to move a lot more air out of the engine compartment. These engines ran just fine under flat hoods, air-conditioning running, in Arizona, in the summer. They cooled fine and didn't vapor lock. So it's something to do with the install.

 

Electric fans mounted right against the radiator like that can block airflow. A mechanical fan w that shroud should do fine. Im from Texas and a few of the old cars I've looked at had wooden clothes pins clipped on the fuel line under hood. Old timers said it acted as a heat sink and helped w vapor lock.. ? The current ethanol gas boils alot faster than the old stuff as well.

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what have you done for a carb isolator? That mass of metal is like a tea pot and I bet it is part of the problem.

 

I’ll probably try switching to the mechanical fan eventually. I have a few other things I want to try. Since the electric pump is working so well right now, it makes me think maybe the eccentric that drives the pump is worn out.

I haven’t done anything yet. I liked the look of this cooling spacer, I might try it out for size:




I’m about to head out in the highway for a bit and give the electric pump a run for it’s money. If everything goes well, I may just order a nicer electric pump to have ready for when the O’Reilly’s special fails.


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Well you do have an engine making probably 15o more HP than what was originally in her. More HP = More heat. We'll get to that in a bit.

And I hope you like long posts, I blather a bit.

Did you ever confirm this? Retarded timing will make the engine run hot, Olds are torquey so you may not even notice if it is retarded timing.

Looking at your pics, if the distributor was installed as per factory with the HEI Power and TACH terminals at ~3 'Oclock, at TDC, then the distributor should only be slightly rotated, The pictures I've seen have the power terminals more at a 2'Oclock position.

Looking at this picture...

... it appears the distributor rotor is 180° out . This is common, as when the Olds engines are built the timing sprockets have dots, basically every other engine lines the sprockets dot to dot for TDC 1. Not Olds, they need to be both at 12 O'Clock. Dot to dot puts the cam 180° out . But the crank and distributor are at #1, then you have to strangle all the wires to get them in the proper position when you realize #1 is #6 and #8 is #5.

Due to the HEI coil you can't run the wires over the cap, so the positions were rotated to better suit the setup. 5-7, 6-8 were the shortest wires with 1 and 2 being the longest not only due to length but positions on the cap. But this routing also went over the valve covers, so it may just be a moot point. And if the distributor hasn't been touched in a decade or two, it can be a bitch to get it to move.

Disconnect the vacuum advance and plug it.
70-74 cars ran 8-14° base timing at idle with points.
75-76 cars ran 12-16° @ 1100rpm with HEI.

If the distributor is factory replacement HEI leave it hooked up to the ported spark port on the carb as is. But I would recommend replacing the vacuum line to the distributor, as well as the front vacuum brake for the choke. If it is a performance HEI then hook it up to manifold vacuum.

In the above picture, is that a ballast resistor?
Bypass that. HEI likes full battery voltage. Weak spark = incomplete combustion. If there is fuel going out the exhaust this could cause secondary combustion out the exhaust, which would also heat up the engine bay. It would not be a misfire.
How do the plugs look?

As for the front vacuum brake for the choke, it appears to be the older plastic type and is being held on with a zip tie. Unless you know it is fully functional and holding the upper choke plate open, I would replace it. If it allows the choke plate to close that would cause an increase in fuel consumption, but you would probably notice the bogging out first. So your dad was kinda right.

I like Q-jets, but the fuel bowls in them are tiny, this is what is making your lack of fuel even more of a PITA. Unlike a Holley, where you could probably putt-putt around the block with full fuel bowls. Verify that there is nothing blocking the vents on the Q-Jet, and also if you have the correct ruler, use it on the slot between the primaries and secondaries and check that the float is properly adjusted.

Later emissions engines did use the return line to prevent vapor lock.
Also the later cars did have lots of bracketry some of which buried the fuel pump and fuel line. I would not be surprised if this acted as a heat shield in itself. Made changing the fuel pump on an Olds a right mother. You may want to try bending up a shield to go over the fuel pump to protect it from prop blast.

If you can, make an airdam under the radiator support. Make sure it seals pretty decently as well. It looks like...

... there is already a good mounting spot. With provided bolt holes. One on each frame horn and then that remnant of a bracket under the center of the radiator.

Probably the easiest would be to get a plastic one off a GM 78-88 A/G(Malibu/Elky/Cutlass/Regal/Monte) It is the plastic L shaped part held on by 6 bolts here...

Make sure to seal those two triangular holes on either side of your rad 'U' support. To be most effective, you don't want any air leakage.

I suspect part of your heating problem is you have lots of air going around the car, but not quite enough going through the radiator. So you have air going over the car and under the car but then the air in the engine bay just kinda stagnates and cooks. Or worse that hot air is getting pulled back out the front, hot air going through a hot radiator.

With an airdam the air that tries to go under the car will now have to go up and in through the radiator. Since you have also created this air dam, there is now a low pressure area behind the air damn and the air that is diverted up and through the rad will now also be pulled down and out of the rad.
If you are not sold on that, experiment with some stiff cardboard and gorilla tape. you may be amazed at how a simple air dam changes how the car cools.

Fan shrouding is important, but in a full body car you also need somewhere for all that air and heat to go.

Check your fuel tanks temperature, check it at the leading edge. You may be surprised to find that your tank is also getting hot. If it is that would give the fuel a head start on vapor locking if it is pre-heated. As it pumps forward it gets hotter and hotter. Using one of the later return style fuel pumps doesn't help either. You have warm fuel getting hot, then being dumped back into the tank making that fuel hot. A vicious cycle. With a non vented cap you could probably pressurize the fuel system from the heat and not even need a fuel pump. Although, I would not recommend that.

Higher HP dumping all that heat from the mufflers and exhaust pipes. has to go somewhere, and fuel tanks and guzoline are great heat sinks.

Another theory I have, did the overheating only start after you lowered the back of the car?
With the old stink bug look there was a bit of a pressure differential created as the back was lifted and it would create a bit of a low pressure area under the rear of the car. Crude but kept the fuel from getting hot by pulling air through the radiator and engine heat down and out the bottom and away from the car. Now the ass just marinates in that heat soak.

TL;DR I have a few theories, check timing, check the fuel tank is getting hot, make an airdam/airdeflector under the radiator.

EDIT: Another cheap/freebie thing do to, get some strips of yarn and do some tuft testing with those louvers in your hood. Idling they may help with relieving heat, but at speed they may act like little cowl induction hoods and actually have the air going into the louvers.

 

Hey all, for starters, I can’t tell you how much I have appreciated all of your input. I read all of it and took it all into consideration.

I’m happy to say, that the car is fixed now. I traded over to a Holley electric pump and ditched the mechanical pump all together. Fuel pressure now stays at a solid 5.5 pounds and I’m able to cruise up and down the highway with the engine running 220* at 75 mph and maintain a 100% full fuel filter.

View attachment 3951971

And just like all of the reviews said... holy hell that pump is loud... oh well. Don’t care.

Thanks again!


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Good news. What is temp in around town traffic?

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