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Technical New Engine lacks power SBC in the Studebaker-RESOLVED

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by vtx1800, May 20, 2020.

  1. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,676

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Kinda looks like a stylized Thermoquad.

    It appears to have Siamese secondaries, effectively making it a 3-barrel.
    [​IMG]
     
    loudbang likes this.
  2. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,092

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @gimpyshotrods I measured both on the push rod side and the valve side, I was supposed to have .450 on the valve side and had .3xx ?? now....is that a legitimate measurement when the lifter isn't pumped up? Bet you are glad it is me having the problem and not you:)
     
    loudbang likes this.
  3. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,092

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @1946caddy I bought both new lifters and cam. Five year warranty. I am using the org valve springs, the machine shop said the springs would be OK for a mild cam so I didn't replace them. I did use the ZZDP that was furnished with the kit as well as cam lube. I really didn't want to have this problem.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  4. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,526

    sdluck
    Member

    What spring were in it? How stiff?
     
  5. I never liked measuring lift with rockers in place with hydraulic lifters. Pull rocker and measure at tip of push rod instead.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  6. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,526

    sdluck
    Member

    Can you fish the lifter out? How did it run when you broke in the cam?
     
  7. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,978

    sunbeam
    Member

    I had a customer bring me a Ford PU with a 300 6cyl it just had the head done the truck idled fine put not get any rpm the valve springs were giving up. I replaced the springs and the motor ran fine. He ask the shop that did the head and they had checked them against each other and they were all the came height. that was all that was done. If you adjust the rocker until it starts to open the valve and then check lift it should be ok..
     
    loudbang likes this.
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,676

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It could be that the lifters are not pumped up. Do you have an oil pump primer, or can you run it for a minute, and check again. That is way too little lift.

    I have my own, extra special problem. Leaving my finger tip hanging over the edge of the intake of a 6-71 did bad things to it, and it may never be the same again.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  9. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,871

    carbking
    Member

    Ray - no comment on the Demon other than it resembles a Carter TQ, which is one of my favorite 4-barrel carbs, if one has enough engine to support it.

    Studebaker used Carter WCFB's on the 259 engine, and while slightly technologically inferior to the Carter AFB or the Holley 4150, or the newer spread-bore carbs; they are completely bullet-proof! Get an original Studebaker version, and the calibration is correct, unless the engine has been significantly modified. Even then, while calibration parts are not locally available, they are readily available mail order.

    Studebaker WCFB's are not as common as those for Chevrolet, but they are not rare (like the Carter AFB's used on the Studebaker 289's).

    The Carter AFB's used by Studebaker are quite rare and very expensive, but relatively easy to re-purpose a Carter AFB designed for a Pontiac to Studebaker calibrations (have done several, it can be done) if one is not into "numbers-matching".

    The Holleys come with a totally different calibration than what the Studebaker wants. I am certain some of the Holley guru's here can re-purpose the Holley, but I am lazy. I like to start with something requiring less modification. I would personally look for a Studebaker WCFB.

    Gimpy - interesting the Demon has Holley-style casting numbers.

    Jon.
     
    loudbang, Hnstray and gimpyshotrods like this.
  10. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 6,024

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    Are any of the press in rocker arm studs being pulled out?
     
    '49 Ford Coupe and loudbang like this.
  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,676

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not that odd. The Demon brand is owned by Sentinel Partners.

    They own: Hooker Headers, Weiand, Nitrous Oxide Systems, Flowtech Exhaust, Demon Carburetion, Earl's Performance Plumbing, Diablosport, MSD, Mr. Gasket, Accel, Superchips, Edge, Racepak, Mallory, Hays, Quicktime, Lakewood, and Holley.

    "Thank you for shopping at UniCorp! 'There's Nowhere Else To Go!' "
     
  12. nunattax
    Joined: Jan 10, 2011
    Posts: 2,340

    nunattax
    Member

    thats a street demon carb
     
    loudbang likes this.
  13. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,978

    sunbeam
    Member

    The first post said he broke the cam in and drove the car
     
  14. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,526

    sdluck
    Member

    Sorry I missed that.
     
  15. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,092

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Partial update, my neighbor/friend came up, we pulled the rocker off of both valves on number two and found that we have full lift (.300 ) off of the pushrod. I guess I will now check all of the rest. Makes me wonder if it's springs?? Note we checked for TDC compared to the damper and it is OK. Note I used the original crank, timing cover and damper as well as a cover that matches the damper TDC (so the outside ring hasn't moved in relation to the center)
     
    '49 Ford Coupe and brigrat like this.
  16. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,281

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    " I took a plastic 55-gallon drum full of take-off Holleys to the swap meet last year, and sold them all, because the customers did not want them back. "

    Around my area you can take a 55 gal. barrel of Holley's & a 55 gal. barrel of Eddy's to a swap meet and the Holley's will sell out every time over the Eddy's!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  17. Have you checked for any rats nest in your intake manifold? (My apologies..trying to be funny)
     
  18. partssaloon
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 457

    partssaloon
    Member

    Damn, that hurt just reading it!
     
    47ragtop likes this.
  19. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,092

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @gimpyshotrods I think I will take more own problems over yours:( I can't imagine:(
    I ran all of the push rods (after taking off the rockers) see picture for my set up. The cam is spec'd at .300" lift on the cam. most lobes were short anywhere from about .018 to .006 with a couple right on. I called the manufacturer and the tech guy told me to drain the oil and inspect for metal as well as cutting the filter to look for metal. IMG_2985.JPG
     
  20. Dial indicator isn't very parallel to push rod.
     
  21. the manufacturer and the tech guy told me to drain the oil and inspect for metal as well as cutting the filter to look for metal.

    You’ve
    got to get a good measure and repeated consistency to make a definitive call on short lobes. 0.018 isn’t a whole bunch and easily in the trueness of your indicators set up.
    And that 0.018 probably isn’t going to stop RPM gain past 2000.
    Not to say that the cam isn’t going flat.
     
  22. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,878

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I see the problem, there's no oil in it! :)

    While it's apart, split the overlap and see where the piston is.
     
  23. What's with the grade 8 bolt's that are welded?
    [​IMG]
     
    Fitty Toomuch likes this.
  24. Intake looks funny as well. Has it been hogged out all the way to the outside so bolts will work?
     
  25. Kevin Ardinger
    Joined: Aug 31, 2019
    Posts: 231

    Kevin Ardinger

    There’s a whole lot more to the cam than lift. Since you have the dial indicator on it might as well put a degree wheel on it and see if the cam events are correct.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Black_Sheep likes this.
  26. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,092

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @Johnny Gee I modified an early manifold to fit later heads. Holley part Number 90748 is a wedge so the center manifold bolts will tighten properly on the 14096217 head.
    IMG_2987.JPG
    Those aren't grade 8, just grade five, they hold the "shelf" for the magnetic dial indicator base. A farmer fix:)

    I followed the tech's suggestion, dumped the oil and drained the filter and cut it open. What PITA. I don't think there is a problem with the cam. The filter media looked the same inside and out.

    IMG_2986.JPG
     
    327-365hp and Johnny Gee like this.
  27. They look gold in the other photo.
     
  28. Driver50x
    Joined: May 5, 2014
    Posts: 119

    Driver50x
    Member

    Did you try pulling the plug wires off one at a time to make sure all 8 cylinders are firing?
     
  29. Mikeszcz
    Joined: Apr 5, 2011
    Posts: 290

    Mikeszcz
    Member
    from Winona, Mn

    Borrow a valve spring pressure tester. My first bet would be weak springs. If you can't find one, give me an address and I'll let you use mine for shipping cost.
    And, how did you set your valve lash?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
    big duece likes this.
  30. Doesn’t matter the color, only three marks on the head


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    Dick Stevens and Blues4U like this.

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