Projects Never thought I'd get a true barn find, My new 88yr old Friend.

Folks on this site certainly have a different definition of the word "fun"...

 

Freeing up a stuck engine with the idea of forcing it to run is not a good idea. You can damage parts and will have a poor running engine with very low compression and leaks. Its a beautiful car, disassemble the engine and reassemble it with cleaning, care and new valve springs, rings, gaskets etc and you will have a good runner

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking, I’ll worry about the drive train first and deal with the beautification ie body and interior last in the order.


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I wish I was there, I'd love to give you a hand with it. Instead, I'll just have to be content with watching from afar.

Not sure if I've told you what happened with my 28 engine. I sold it, it got stripped and rebuilt. It had one cracked piston, and the waterpump shaft got rebuilt. Last I saw, it was in its new home, a beautiful 28 Hudson Landau, but wasn't running. I'll email the new owner, for an update tomorrow.

 

Looks like I’ve got a foot in the door for a runner fellas! All coolant passages are packed with mice nests... I’ll pop the frost plugs to make certain all lines are clear to avoid over heating.,cylinder Walls all look great and piston heads appear to only have carbon build up. Will soak with ATF in the AM and let sit till gone or until I can get the water pump shaft removed as it has swelled/rusted. What’s the update on your 28 Jeff?


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Looking good, nice to see the project is moving along. Bob

 

This will be a cool car!


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Careful disassembly, allows it to run well later on. I bent a rod trying to 'free-up' a frozen 265 inch SBC , took some time to get a replacement part. A great looking car!

 

Id like to see a thread in this car, restored or not. Resurrecting this thing will be interesting.

I agree with CLR, and a healthy coat of johnsons paste wax or gibbs oil. Another method, kill the rust with clr and thin some matching lacquer or enamel - a lot - and brush it on, couple coats of almost transparent paint and it will still have the worn look and allow the original to show thru.
Get it running and driving. Maybe lower it a bit and swap the wheels if you prefer.

Anything you do, its gonna be a cool car and a fun build to watch.

 

Great ideas! Love the patina idea! Thank you for your input, it was on the drawing board for this car to have a roof line 3” lower but at the last second if was reverted.... I’m seriously thinking about a custom “should have been” especially after seeing the low roofed higher end cars of the day ( thoughts?) the front axel already sits only 7” from the dirt not sure I could get to much closer than that.. though I would love these 7 lug 80 spoke wire wheels on a open wheeled racer build ( later on) and then run some old solid wheels ( or something similar) on this old girl.


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I went to the junkyard this afternoon because I had seen some old wrenches on the ground I only at first picked up a few because they look to be the same size but in fact they are all different exactly by 1/16th of an inch... i’ve also been having some trouble finding a socket that is shallow enough to take the Jesus nut off of my flywheel in order to get to the timing chain and coolant pump shaft, as luck would have it at the junkyard I found the most impossibly perfect tool to do the job perfect fit!!!!


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Well I’ll be a son of a bitch!!! Without even thinking about it I was tightening the Jesus nut to protect the exposed threads and after only 2 or 3 hours of MM oil the damn thing moved!!!! Going to let her soak to make certain the rings and walls get a good coat to avoid scoring. I’m all ears for advise! Time for one of my favs!!!


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Let it soak, replenish if it disappears, go very slowly, possibly a little back and forth . Eventually it should all move freely since it has already started. Patience.

 

You found a set of spud wrenches. Used for setting steel building beams mostly, tapered ends for a bar to slip over. These are usually very stout, nice grab.

 

Also to insert into the bolt or rivet holes to align them permitting the insertion of bolts or rivets.

 

The 28s only a chassis, front and rear end now. The engine is running in its new home.
Nice to see some mechanical progress for your 29.

 

Keep going,it is looking good

 

Some disciplined heat and candle wax loosens the toughest of stuck shit. Don't forget the 50/50 mix of acetone and straight trans fluid (no synthetic, doesn't work). I had a stuck trunk lock gig on my 39, dropped in the 50/50 and let it soak (I actually forgot about it). When I did remember it was like new. I didn't read every reply so if it was already suggested consider it an "I second that..." moment. Nice score, enjoy the journey.

 

A true example of early car ART both in design and function. GREAT find.

 

Got the pump assembly apart, I ended up soaking it in a few different concoctions and then added some heat Now I need to think about some solid farm remedies on how to repair the shaft to avoid the costs of a machinist. ( I do own a small Metal lathe) I called Egge in California for shits if I couldn’t figured this out and they told me that since the same shaft runs the Distributor, Water pump and the Generator that it was “ too involved for us or our outsourced machinist shops” Since the shaft was frozen I didn’t have a way to safely test for movement of the cam shaft before. With the W-pump removed I reinstalled all wheels and the timing chain ( pain in the royal ass btw) not really paying much attention to proper timing to see if I would be as fortunate as I was with the crankshaft being free. It was a little stiff at first but the cam shaft is free and all valves appear to be working properly!!!


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That's just an awesome find and one righteous car! Would be smiling so big that I couldn't stand myself spinning a wrench on her! Best to you man!

 

Thank you! It’d be pain to do with out the support and ingenuity from fellas we have within this awesome group.


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You can also do a vinegar soak of small bits. Give them a day or so then a good rinse. Vinegar is 5% acetic acid. Phosphoric and muriatic will work, but can also brittle the metal, and can pose a problem at disposal time.

 

Well I'm at a small stand still here fellas.... I have found a few engine blocks, 2 transmissions, water pumps and one complete engine through a year of searching but have not yet found the appropriate Marvel Model E carburetor and Heat Control ( will attach pics with my phone shortly)

The biggest issue here is that the carbs were made out of cheap pot metal ( not meant to last 89 years) and to often when you find them them the bowls or lids are warped, cracked or simply wont function yet they still fetch the price of $250 for a mystery carb, it may work it may not... and if it does surely it wont last much longer....

Issue two is the heat control ( the stack that sits above the carb with respective linkage up high to reach the carb down low.) These are notorious for being literally burnt from the inside out, I have seen several that look good from the outside but on the inside they are toast, also another mystery surprise, I saw a "good one" sell for $500 bucks online, a price to high for a crap carb thats gonna fail sooner or later from what I hear from some old timers in the Hudson H.E.T club.

I wont be rodding this car but I'd like to make a righteous period ( or close) custom , you know metal top, landau irons etc. The 288 ci engine had 92 horse power, that's better than most fords 8's stock until the end I think 52? with the 239ci and still that was only 3hp more some 20 years later...... so I've got to keep this old beast.

I'm thinking about doing perhaps a multi carb setup, which may or maynot work .... I'd also need to figure the math on what would work better.... 1, 2 , 3 carbs etc. Would they need to be smaller if I am adding them up? Perhaps a few brass model T carbs.....? I would prefer brass to avoid worrying about structural integrity, plus they look so much better cleaned up.

 

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Good to see the progress

 

I haven't seen a useable 1929 Hudson Marvel carb in the last 30 years! As mentioned above, the zinc alloy bodies just fall apart. Maybe 30 or so years ago, lots of the Hudson folks started using the brass 1928 carb, I believe it to be a bolt-on swap; but they have pretty well been bought up as well. Before Marvel, Hudson used the much superior Stewart carburetor. Stewart was a division of Detroit Lubricator. The carburetor was brass, and is just plain bullet-proof. It would require the earlier intake manifold. The Stewarts are still around if you look (they never wear out like the Marvels).

Looks like a great project! Good luck.

Jon.

 

Thank you for the advice! I’ll see what I can dig up!


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It may be better to adapt a more readily available carb, rather than looking for a unicorn. The intake manifold does look rather strange, so it would require some special adapter to mount a different carb. At least an adapter would be under your control.

 

The intake manifold looks strange because there is a "heat riser assembly" located between the carburetor and the intake manifold.

Marvels were horribly inefficient, and produced the heat riser system to help atomize the fuel. The heat riser consists of a outer chamber attached to the exhaust system, with an inner pipe that connects the carburetor and the intake manifold. The inner pipe was mild steel, and constant contact with the exhaust caused the inner pipe to rust away. Symptom: a modern vehicle with a badly leaking EGR valve.

And while the carburetors are scarce, the heat risers, originally made in cast iron, are now made from unobtainium!

While the cast iron is substantial, the heating/cooling cycles introduce a brittleness to the casting. Now add a mechanic that doesn't understand the system, and we have a ruined heat riser. Why? The inner tube(s) are pressed into a blind hole. They cannot be driven out. The method of removing a rusted through tube is to use a boring bar to bore away the tube is increments of no more than 0.003 inch until the remaining tube is paper thin, when it can be removed using needle-nose pliers. Trying to drive out the tube(s) normally results in the inner casting cracking. If you need one, I probably have the inner tube, but I won't change it!

If changing to a different carburetor, generally better to totally eliminate the heat riser system (not needed with modern fuel unless you live within the Arctic Circle), reroute the exhaust in a more conventional fashion, and fabricate the needed adapter to mate the replacement carburetor directly to the intake manifold. All very good for a driver, but it detracts from the original IF staying close to original is important to the owner.

Which is why I mentioned the earlier Stewart (Detroit Lubricator) carburetor. I do not have parts interchange books this early, but the engine displacement is the same, so possibly an earlier intake and carburetor would bolt to the cylinder head, and one could use the earlier exhaust routing. (Opinion) the three carburetor companies at the top of the heap in the late 1920's were Stromberg, Zenith, and Stewart (Detroit Lubricator). Packard used the Detroit carbs on their Super 8's, as did Cadillac on their V-12 and V-16 engines (after a one-year horrible experience with Johnson).

Jon.