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Hot Rods Need help modifying steering column for exhaust

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Austin Badley, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. Austin Badley
    Joined: Jan 17, 2017
    Posts: 13

    Austin Badley
    Member

    Well I've swapped a small block and 4 speed into my 41 Plymouth. Building a somewhat traditional street car to have fun at the strip. I'm using the original front end with the steering box. I'm having issues with the steering column/shaft being in the way of the last exhaust port. I don't think any exhaust manifold will be small enough to clear it, so I'm gonna have to modify it somehow. Plan on using fender well headers anyway. I've seen chain drive conversions for the steering shaft, and steering U joints. I'd prefer to use steering U joints but haven't seen how anyone has done it yet. I don't want to order a bunch of expensive steering u joints and find out they don't work. Hoping someone can show me what they have done on their car. [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  2. Did you offset the engine to the passenger side? About an inch inch and a half is the usual amount in the old mopars.
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  3. Go to p15-d24.com and look around
     
    Austin Badley and dana barlow like this.
  4. I'd stay away from the Chain connectors, they are just a Lit Fuse. As mentioned above, move the motor over. You don't need to be on center as long as your square to center line.
    The Wizzard
     
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  5. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 6,321

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That chain steeer apparatus http://www.wizardsteerclear.com/ is about 400 bucks, plus you need to adapt the column to it since the shaft only runs to the firewall. Your money ahead if you offset that motor and try that route first .
     
  6. What is the distance from the port to that shaft?
     
  7. Austin Badley
    Joined: Jan 17, 2017
    Posts: 13

    Austin Badley
    Member

    No I didnt know anything about doing that until the mounts were made and the engine was already sitting in it.. trying to decide whether or not I should just build new motor and trans mounts. I just think having the trans and rear end out of line would cause issues. Maybe its a small enough angle to not hurt anything?
     
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,930

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Move the engine to the side. As has been said, it needs to be square in the chassis. Plenty of vehicles, especially vans, have offset engines and transmissions.
     
  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,930

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My pinion yoke 2" to the passenger side of the chassis center line, and 1/2" above the transmission output shaft. It has seen 100, with no vibration.
     
  10. Austin Badley
    Joined: Jan 17, 2017
    Posts: 13

    Austin Badley
    Member

    So if i were to move the motor over, does that mean ill also have to move my rear end over to keep it in line? I already have everything built and in the car except a driveshaft and exhaust. Getting really annoyed at myself for not doing more research before we started this. Exhaust port to to shaft is a hair over 2 inches. Also afraid if i move the motor over, im gonna have to cut the trans tunnel and possibly firewall. Just need to look at it again i guess.
     
  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,930

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No.
     
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  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,930

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you look at the planes of the pinion, and the transmission output shaft from the side, do they line up, or are they just parallel?
     
  13. dan31
    Joined: Jul 3, 2011
    Posts: 1,032

    dan31
    Member

    Check out the wizard steer clear,they work,i have one on my model A. Saved me all kinds of b.s. fitment problems and yes they are strong
     
  14. Austin Badley
    Joined: Jan 17, 2017
    Posts: 13

    Austin Badley
    Member

    From what I can tell they line up. Im currently looking online at how much angle will give issues.
     
  15. We have built headers in our Tight Tuck line that are 2" from the port to the outside of the bend.
    This is a 409 header, but the idea is the same
    H8066-B.jpg
     
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  16. Austin Badley
    Joined: Jan 17, 2017
    Posts: 13

    Austin Badley
    Member

    Steering box would be in the way for a straight down flange. Thinking about picking up a welder and trying to modify some cheap headers to work.
     
  17. 3340
    Joined: Jun 4, 2010
    Posts: 551

    3340
    Member

  18. paul55
    Joined: Dec 1, 2010
    Posts: 3,156

    paul55
    Member
    from michigan

    Offset engine, as has been said, and be done! It's a common practice.
     
  19. mopar362000
    Joined: Feb 14, 2008
    Posts: 88

    mopar362000
    Member

    offset engine & trans to pass side as needed.Mopar did this for decades will make life much easier.
     
  20. Maybe it hasn't been explained well enough for you yet. Moving the motor off center has been a Factory practice for years. What's important is that motor center line (crank shaft) remains Parallel to chassis center line. The exact place of the rear diff yoke has little to do with where the motor goes as long as it too is parallel to chassis center line. Next thing is to match incline of both Crank and pinyon angles.
    Keeping these two lines correct and you won't have any U-Joint issues of vibration. Like said before most Factory's have been doing this for many years.
    The Wizzard
     
  21. Well, 2 u joints and a brace might be better cheaper and faster than remounting the engine.
    But that may not solve all your troubles either and you wind up moving the engine too.
    If you can hand grind with a 4.5" to fine tolerance you can adapt the D D profile joints to your shaft. Then get a chunk of 3/4" double D shaft and a bearing.

    image.png
     
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  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,211

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

  23. It's sooooo hard to explain.
    In order to understand that, The first thing someone needs to do is completely forget everything that is wrong that they ever thought the new about drive line angles. Other wise it's a big fat wall of cognitive dissidence the explainer tries to knock down. Convincing them that info is wrong when they believe it's right is the first hurdle.

    For discussion sake, let's say the the engine Trans and pinion are on center the drive line angle are correct and there's Zero problems. Now rotate the car rotisserie style to 45* and measure all the angles the same way with a gravity based doohickey. None of it works out and it's all jacked angle measurements. Yet everything was right so it's right in space too. However the angle of reference is different.

    With the engine offset and the drive line angle correct you will still have the perfect straight line relationship but the angle of reference will be rotated in space, like on a rotisserie
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  24. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 601

    coilover
    Member
    from Texas

    We often use shorty steering columns anymore. Both Ididit and Flaming River now offer them. Here are pics of one we fabbed in 2009, long before they were offered as kits (not quite as pretty). This is a big block in a 37 Chevy truck so like yours the engine bay was designed for a skinny 6. One U-joint on column shaft, pillow block on firewall, and second U-joint on shaft from gear box.

    37 Hauler, Don\'s for sale 86 006.jpg 37 Hauler, Don\'s for sale 86 005.jpg
     
    Austin Badley likes this.
  25. Austin Badley
    Joined: Jan 17, 2017
    Posts: 13

    Austin Badley
    Member

    Thanks everybody for the help so far. Sounds like the "easy way out" is to offset the motor the passenger side, I understand this. Im 17 with no fabrication skill and no access to a welder. I can do any normal work to a car thats needed, but all of this custom fabrication im lost. My dads friend built the mounts for me, I put the rear end in. If I had a welder, id be cutting out the old mounts and building new ones. I still havent seen any pictures of a similar mopar car with a 350, was hoping somebody already dealt with this and could show me pictures of what they did. The pictures DDDenny posted is what i had in mind, a couple of u joints and a brace seemed like the easiest thing to do for me. Was just looking for advice or pictures of how to do that, with the stock steering box. The problem im seeing is the steering box being so close to the firewall, it would require I think 3 u joints and possibly being to much of angle causing it to bind. Maybe the wizard steer clear would work, pretty expensive setup though. Even if i have to move the motor over an inch or two, I think ill still need to build custom headers or modify the steering shaft.
     
  26. when the motor moves over, and the rear and motor are still square to the chassis, the side angles to each other still match.
     
    Austin Badley likes this.
  27. Austin Badley
    Joined: Jan 17, 2017
    Posts: 13

    Austin Badley
    Member

    This looks like something that would work for me!
     
  28. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,211

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon


    Bingo
    I have two cars with this system. I was trying to find a photo, coilover beat me.
    Having the first joint inside the cab allows for the shaft to start heading downhill sooner as well as having the capability to angle out slightly if needed.
    Very doable with a combination of single and/or double joints as well as an intermediate support such as a rod end.
    A couple lengths of wood doweling works great for mockup when mapping out the path.
    Its much cheaper than replacing splined shafting (or DD) if a plan gets changed.
     
    Austin Badley likes this.
  29. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 2,783

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    Would hugger dump headers give you the needed clearence? This how I got my clearence issue taken care of so that I wouldn't have to move my motor to the side.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  30. Austin Badley
    Joined: Jan 17, 2017
    Posts: 13

    Austin Badley
    Member

    If you find of picture of you cars with this system id love to see it. This looks like it would work great for my car. Ill probably modify the stock steering column to work. Ive heard of the wood dowel rods or pvc for mock up.
     

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