I have a fairly late model Chevy 292 I-6 (block # 834111147), that I am putting in my 41 GMC. I want to run three belts to support power steering, and A/C, as well as the alternator. I am having a heck of a time finding a pulley setup that will work. I have a three groove harmonic balancer, but I can't seem to find the right water pump pulley for the combination. The attached drawing shows the groove pattern on the harmonic balancer that I have. Can anyone tell me what combination of pulleys I need to look for to make this thing work? http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/foghron62/2adba43f.jpg
Is your waterpump pulley lined up to where the belt is sort of halfway between 2 grooves? You can usually (carefully) press or pull the hub flange a bit to get lined up. I run my power steering on its own belt, and the AC and alternator share one belt.
Thanks 50CS. So far I haven't been able to find any water pump pulley that has a groove pattern like my harmonic balancer at all. I think I probably need a different harmonic balancer. I see that you have a three grove harmonic balancer on yours, but the grooves appear the be evenly spaced. Where did you get it? Also, do you have any pics of your motor set up in your truck with the accessories in place? I'd be curious to see how you set up your A/C and alternator on the same belt.
The GM water pump pulleys come with two different bolt patterns for the most part, either the small pattern or large pattern. I keep every old pulley off any engine that gets used for parts or gets scrapped because it is junk. They all go in a box in the shed where I can dig though them later if I need one and on several occasions I have mixed and matched to get what I want. It's pretty much dig, measure, try and dig again until a guy finds the one that will work. I don't think you will be able to run all three things off the three belts but have to do as 1950 Chevysuburban did and run the alternator and ac with a pair belts and the power steering with the third. I'm still a long way from that part on my truck. What I would do is mount the three items on the engine and then decide what coarse of action I was taking. What pulleys line up with each other when you do that? Usually the power steering wants to be by it's self on older GM engines but not always.
Well, that brings up a whole nuther dilemma. Placement of accessories, and brackets for same. My thought was to work out the pulleys first, and then work on mounting the accessories as necessary. Brackets for these things are not easy to find. There is a guy here on the HAMB that makes accessory brackets for 292s and sells them through an ebay store. His brackets mount the A/C on top passenger side, the P/S top driver side, and Alternator in the stock location bottom driver side. I've seen pics of his stuff showing the P/S and Alt on the same belt, and the A/C on its own, but it doesn't appear to me like the placement of his alt allows the pulley to get enough bite without installing some sort of idler pulley. He says to use SBC pulleys, but I've talked to many of the so called stove bolt experts, and they all say that won't work. So far no one has shown me what will work, only what won't. I've bought several pulleys that were supposed to be from 292s, and none of them work with my harmonic balancer. I'm not upposed to changing to a different harmonic balancer if that is what needs to happen. I often think that if I would have taken the easy way out and put a SBC in the truck, I'd be driving it by now with a smile on my face and money in the bank, but no, I had to be different. The thing is, I know that there are lots of guys out there running these engines. I just need to know how they set theirs up. I guess if it were easy, everybody would want to do it.
...I'm running a 292 in my next project; and only running an alternator. The pulleys that came with the engine didn't line up like I'd like them to, altho the previous owner drove it that way with no problems. I ended up making my own alt. mount for the engine to get correct pulley alignment. You may have to get creative and do the same for your accessories.
I made all my own brackets for the 250 I'm running. (essentially the same as a 292) Been working fine for 5300 miles now, but there's room for improvement. I'm going to re-do everything this spring (I think). Right now, I have the P/S on its own belt upper passenger side. I wanted the A6 compressor hidden, so it's lower driver's side. The alternator is a small Toyota unit mounted above the AC. I had to add a small idler that tensions the back side of the V-belt to get extra belt traction. Ford did that years ago - works but you cannot run a Dayco Top-Cog belt. My compressor only has a 1 groove pulley, but my replacement compressor has two grooves, so my alternator will run off the second groove by itself in my next design. I don't know where I got my crank pulley from, but I made the rest of the system to fit it first.
I was considering running an idler pulley this time around. With all the serpentine belt setups sitting in the wrecking yards there are a lot of choices for Idlers and many are spring loaded. Or just install one so that it helps the belts get more coverage on the pulleys and use the regular adjustment brackets.
I have a Fluidamper on my 292, and used some old SBC pulleys, running AC, PS, and Alt. I can't give you specifics, they were just old ones I had laying around, so they must be pretty common ones. I did modify mounts to line things up as well as making the AC compressor mount.
You need to look at the ebay pictures more carefully. It shows a factory 3 groove setup with a separate belt for each component. There are NO issues with this. For those who can't find a 3 groove water pump pulley, Here's some options. Since you can't find a factory 3 groove water pump pulley, you take a 2 groove SBC or L6 pulley and you put a fan spacer between the pulley and pump, so that it lines up with the front 2 grooves of the balancer. Then you run the Alt off the rear groove of the balancer only, middle groove is for the PS, and the front groove for the AC. Another option is to take a single and double groove pulley and weld them together. Or you can buy a billet aluminum 3 groove SBC pulley from March Performance... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MCH-5052/ As for the length of the fan spacer needed, it will depend on what pump/engine you have (different wp heights) and what the groove placement is like on the balancer. FYI, The factory 3 groove WP pulley is actually a regular 2 groove with another special pulley over the top of it. Although I have seen factory 3 groove pulleys, just not certain of original application.
Also, there were 3 different water pumps used over the years on the 292. 1963-64, 1965-79 & 1980-87. The 80-87 pump is the same height as the low deck engines, which is shorter than the earlier 292 pumps. What this means is, that even if you have a 3 groove WP pulley, depending on what you have for a pump and balancer, they may still not line up. If you are using a 3 groove balancer with the wide space at the back (like the picture shows), and you are using a '79 or earlier 292 pump, then a SBC 3 groove pulley (like the one from March) should line up fine. If you are wondering about a specific combo of parts, all you have to do is ASK ME....
Not true Bryan. Your pic of the engine where you're selling the A/C bracket shows a two belt setup with the p/s belt pulling double duty by running around the alt. Does that work for you? I think I've found a solution to me problem. Damper Doctor says they can reconfigure my harmonic balancer core with a pulley that has 3/8" grooves closest to the engine with a 1/2" space between the first two. I have a two groove water pump pulley that looks like this, so I think I can run the p/s and the a/c using seperate belts across the water pump, and the alt directly off the crank. I may need to have a two groove alt pulley to make this work, but those are available. The pics show the reconfigured harmonic balancer, and in the pic of the water pump pulleys, the one on the left is the one that I will use. My engine is one of the last 292s made with casting no.93411146, so it has the short water pump. The engine has never been run.
Look at the PS pictures for a 3 groove 3 belt setup. That's what I was refering to. The AC picture shows the older pump and a 2 groove SBC pulley that is spaced forward. Just to be clear, you can't run the Alt off the front groove of the damper because the alt case will be in the way of the PS belt. The Alt has to run off the rear groove of the damper. That means the above plan will not work. And here's a picture of what you are suggesting, and that particular WP pulley can't be spaced forward and still work due to the wide gap bewteen the grooves. There is no senario that I've been able to come up with that will allow you to use the shorter water pump and have the WP pulley work off of just the front 2 grooves of the damper without putting a spacer between the pump and pulley. Here's a setup that does work. It uses the damper with the wide space at the front. the list of parts as shown is: Damper Dudes part#CH292-4 for the damper stock 2 groove pulley that is 2 3/4" tall with a normal gap between grooves 1" tall fan spacer 1980-up 292 water pump that is 3 7/8" tall I believe you could do the same but with that CHE2924 damper as well. The aluminum 3 groove pulley I referenced earlier will work with the damper that has the wide space to the rear (what you currently have), but it will also need to be spaced forward. If you use the older style pump which is 4 1/2" tall, then it would probably need about an 1/8" shim. Also note that that pulley has a 3/4" center hole instead of the usual 5/8", so a 5/8 x 3/4 bushing would be needed (.81 cents from McMaster-Carr).
Thanks Bryan, this is good stuf! One way or another, I'll figure out something. Below is a sketch from Vintage Air showing the Alt running off of the front groove. You say that won't work? What I had in mind was to run the A/C off of the rear groove, the PS off of the middle, and the Alt running off of the front using a two or three groove Alt pulley like they show here.
yes, that will work also. My sugestions were in terms of using a single groove Alt pulley. With my brackets on a 292, you could also run the AC off the rear groove, the PS off the middle groove, and the alt with a 2 groove pulley could then run off the front. To clarify, to use the AC on the rear groove, you would need to use the balancer with the wide space at the back. Otherwise, the AC belt gets a bit too close to the thermostat housing. I have a new setup coming outthat will work out better for what you are trying to do.
Right, that's the direction that I'm heading. I'll be in touch soon to order some brackets. Thanks to all that chimed in for your help. If I was running a basic SBC, I could have just picket up the phone and ordered some billit parts from Summit for my krate engine, but what would be the fun in that? The HAMB comes through again!
Excellent info guys!, I just joined the board after finding this thread with google! Foghorn, I am at the same spot, trying to figure out the same issues. I will keep you posted on what I figure out, but it looks like some fabrication of brackets is in order at my house. I have the 292 3 groove balancer, with the wide groove to the front. I bought some used 292 PS brackets and pulleys, but I don't think I will use any of that. I am going to run a Sanden 508 AC compressor with 2 groove pulley, a S12 alt, and a GM type II PS pump like in the Vintage Air diagram, but I may put the PS pump at the bottom; I have seen that done and have a picture of it to share if you want. I have a used Vintage Air compressor mount that mounts on the passenger side of the head. I will mount that first, then figure out the alt and PS pump mounting with custom brackets. I have 2 pumps, one is 4" tall and one 4 1/2". The water pump pulley I have doesn't match the balancer, so I am ordering a SBC pulley to try. i will post pic's if you want, keep in touch with your progress
foghorn, I just went to garage and looked at my stuff, and I may have the water pump pulley you need, but its 2 groove, not 3. I looks like the first picture Snarl posted with the old blue motor. The grooves match the balancer that has the wide space to the back. It's 5 7/8 diameter and about 3" tall. It looks like the motor these brackets were taken off of used the 2 groove water pump pulley, and there is a 3 groove idler that matches your harmonic balancer. I can send pics if needed.
I've expained several ways to do it, and there are a few more that I haven't listed. I have brackets for the type II pumps also. I also have a setup coming out that only requires a 2 groove setup. Should be available in March.
Oh sure, now you drop THAT little tidbit on us I already planned to buy my brackets from you, and I went ahead and had my crank pulley re- configured for the two groove water pump pulley like I had planned. I'll be interested in seeing how your new bracket works, but I'll definitely be using the three groove crank pulley with the two groove water pump and alternator pulleys. Tad, I'd be interested in seeing your pics of with the PS mounted low, and the alt up high.
sorry? It'll still work, don't sweat it. I didn't know you had done anything yet. The setup I'm sorting out right now would be a better choice for what you are doing. That's why I went ahead and mentioned it before it's really ready for sale. I'm only trying to help
I am having a problem with my newly aquired 292 project. Have a three groove pulley that I don't need and the timing mark when 1# cylinder is at TDC is on the passenger side not the drivers side where the adjustment marks are. Do I have the wrong pulley or?
Can you help me solve my pulley problem i a have a 1967 Chevrolet C10 truck i have improved with P/S and Vintage Air Gen IV air but i need a three pulley for my crank or can you tell me what to use to make all my accesories work. Thanks.
very old post . but may be new info. ,and I'm there now. putting a 75 crossmember in my 64 with 292/3 spd.. seems like lower mount of pwr steering pump may be best , and I should be able to easily mount alt. up top . has anyone had exp. fabing these parts them selves . seems like $20.oo of iron should do it . also concidering $300.oo manual box and using Armstrong . all input n appreciated
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