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Nailhead is. Dead

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by vega1, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. vega1
    Joined: Feb 15, 2012
    Posts: 192

    vega1
    Member

    10 degree initial 32 total have tried timing both ways ported full vacuum totally advanced same problem
     
  2. Manic Mechanix
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 22

    Manic Mechanix
    Member

    Air conditioned nailheads had a 5 fin impeller on the water pump. Others, just had 3 fins. Also, the 5 fin pumps had I believe 5/8" pump shaft while the others had 1/2" shaft. I had purchased a reman pump that had the smaller shaft . I had to make and press on a bushing to make the 5 fin impeller fit. If I'm not mistaken, the a/c nailheads had a smaller pump pulley to circulate coolant faster and also ran a 7 blade clutch fan. You might try a fan and shroud from a late 80's mopar (Dodge diplomat with a 318). These shrouds fit my 63 Buick real well.
     
  3. paintworks_unlimited
    Joined: Mar 17, 2008
    Posts: 78

    paintworks_unlimited
    Member
    from Dover, NH

    It's a Buick thing. All mine seem to run hot. My '60 however seems to run the coolest. The '59-'60 water pumps are specific. I'll go upstairs and see if I have one to take a pic of to compare impeller fins. On my '65 I ended up plugging off the exhaust crossover in the intake. That helped a ton.
     
  4. SMOG_GUY
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 388

    SMOG_GUY
    Member
    from Dinuba

    The thing about vacuum leaks is that they represent a tiny amount of air entering the engine anywhere above idle.
    That little volume going in is a garden hose vs the Pacific Ocean at cruise speeds. Doesn't amount to much.
    At idle, OK, extra air equals lean equals hotter engine.
    But you'd think it would idle faster, idle rough, etc.
     
  5. slimpick
    Joined: Aug 4, 2008
    Posts: 97

    slimpick
    Member

    Some guys think it is better to use the non-AC 3 vane water pump instead of the 5 vane water pump (which came with AC equipped cars). They say the water moves too fast through the block.
     
  6. SMOG_GUY
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 388

    SMOG_GUY
    Member
    from Dinuba

    I've seen loose timing chains make engines do crazy things, including run hot.
    Have done the quickie timing chain looseness check, yet?
     
  7. 54Buick48D
    Joined: Jan 25, 2013
    Posts: 208

    54Buick48D
    Member
    from Maryland

    I believe the AC cars had an additional fan blade as well.
     
  8. paintworks_unlimited
    Joined: Mar 17, 2008
    Posts: 78

    paintworks_unlimited
    Member
    from Dover, NH

    Here are the different pump designs. A '61 and up pump will work. They are a lot shorter though. (which is good if you want to add an electric fan) The only thing is you need to fill just a bit of outlet boss with JB Weld to get it to seal.
     

    Attached Files:


  9. I believe this to be true.......................I never use the A/C Water pump.
     
  10. Manic Mechanix
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 22

    Manic Mechanix
    Member

    I'm really not good debates, but there are a gozillion threads about electric fans vs engine driven fans and most of what I've seen, here on the hamb and other forums, magazine articles etc., has engine driven fans with a shroud solving a majority of air flow related cooling problems.
     
  11. 26Troadster
    Joined: Nov 20, 2010
    Posts: 582

    26Troadster
    Member
    from Texas

    i don't know about the nail head, but you said you had the water pump off. my boss had a f450 that the water pump went out on, we sent a new water pump to the driver, he put it on and then the truck ran a lot warmer then it had before. to make along story short, is there was a stamped plate that went between the water pump and the housing, that didn't get put back in till he got it here to the shop. good luck, and please don't put a chevy in it.
     
  12. 54Buick48D
    Joined: Jan 25, 2013
    Posts: 208

    54Buick48D
    Member
    from Maryland

    They all have a surface behind them. Ford with the plate as you know. Chevy has the plate with two pipes either side entering and exiting the block. Plate is visible on the back. Buick uses the timing chain cover as the plate. If the shaft impeller is not close enough I believe it can cavitate.
     
  13. Snot Rocket
    Joined: Sep 8, 2012
    Posts: 122

    Snot Rocket
    Member

    Timing. Coolant. Thermostat. Water pump. Fan.

    If these all. Check out. Maybe something else. You aren't driving in hell, are you? That would explain excess heat.

    A lean condition sounds like the most likely culprit at this time, or exhaust gasses leaking into the coolant. Nailheads are cave man technology, they were pretty careful about overheating conditions.

    Maybe a plugged passage. A dropped bolt will do much mayhem in the wrong place.
     
  14. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,555

    zman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Garner, NC

    The stock gauge on my 57 is dead in the middle at 220. Mine runs between 180 and 210 via the gauge under the dash now unless I'm in heavy traffic then it can sneak up to about 225ish. I would not necessarily say 230 is to hot as I have seen a lot that run there. Does it go past 230? What are you using to determine these temps and where are you is the sensor?
     
  15. Rob68
    Joined: Jun 16, 2011
    Posts: 495

    Rob68
    Member

    I really hope you get it sorted out and I'll be following this one. This is why I love the hamb, everyone tries to help and everybody learns something new. Best of luck.
     
  16. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,555

    zman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Garner, NC

    Yes it is...
     
  17. 65nailhead
    Joined: Sep 2, 2013
    Posts: 4

    65nailhead
    Member

    I had maddening overheating problems on my 401. I did two things at once that solved the problem (not sure which solved it).

    1. Replaced the high flow aftermarket water pump with a stock water pump.
    2. Recurved the distributor. (Had an aftermarket MSD distributor that needed different springs.)

    Once I did those two things it went from overheating (220+) as soon as the rpms got above idle, to running in a normal range (190).


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,647

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Get a hold of a non-contact pyrometer (infrared thermometer), of known good calibration, and check with that.

    I have had numerous customers come in looking for cooling system upgrades, because their gauge is in the red, OEM and aftermarket, only to have the pyrometer show 205º-210º, on the hoses and water neck.
     
  19. slammed
    Joined: Jun 10, 2004
    Posts: 8,152

    slammed
    Member

    The HAMB is remodeling. Please go to the Introduction area and give a brief reason who and why you like this place. Simple and respectful.
     
  20. vega1
    Joined: Feb 15, 2012
    Posts: 192

    vega1
    Member

    Well I went back out tonight cleaned the tools put them up and had a regroup so I took my infrared thermometer. Got her hot on the gauge about 200. Hit hoses with infrared and it said 180 top 187 bottom hose. And said 190 at the head were temp fitting is so temp gauge is off a little But it will overheat if I keep it at steady rpm say 2500. It will creep up now if I get her hot and let her idle she will cool down and set and idle all day at no more then 190. So I start checking spayed intake around gaskets and she idled up now I can not hear a vacuum leak but their is defintley one there so I'm thinking she may be leaning out at speed
     
  21. SMOG_GUY
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 388

    SMOG_GUY
    Member
    from Dinuba

    It may be leaning out above idle but blaming a piddly little vacuum leak for it doesn't make sense.
    Once you open the throttle, a vacuum leak becomes a tiny portion of incoming air. Not relevant, usually.
    In fact, one way to diagnose a vacuum leak is to see if rough running goes away above idle.
     
  22. creepjohnny
    Joined: Dec 1, 2007
    Posts: 873

    creepjohnny
    Member
    from Sunland,CA

    This could be worth the trouble. Pick up a sunpro aftermarket temp gauge and install it in the block and watch it. Maybe the gauge could be off. And even if its off 5-10 degrees that's a difference between 190-200. I'd rather be seeing 190 than 200.
    Then if it is your gauge, either install the new, or return it
     
  23. RussK
    Joined: Sep 19, 2010
    Posts: 119

    RussK
    Member
    from Atlanta Ga

    check inlet and outlet on radiator when hot, should be a good amount of difference
    sent PM
     
  24. pinkynoegg
    Joined: Dec 11, 2011
    Posts: 1,135

    pinkynoegg
    Member

    are you putting it up to 2500 just sitting in the driveway? when the car is at higher rpm you are normally moving down the road with more air passing through the radiator. take her around the block and see how she does
     
  25. vega1
    Joined: Feb 15, 2012
    Posts: 192

    vega1
    Member

    I haven't had a chance to drive her down the road yet. But I fixed the vacuum leak. What I should have said was I can now get her hot sitting in the garage holding her a 2500 and once I let her idle she will start cooling back down instead of getting hotter . Will drive her tomorrow and see what happens.
     
  26. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,728

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Could be that your electric fan "upgrade" is blocking airflow at cruising speeds?!?!
    dave
     
  27. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,974

    sunbeam
    Member

    Why is the coolant hotter coming out of the radiator than going in?
     
  28. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,106

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    With a new radiator installed, that should eliminate the radiator being clogged issue. Going back to 2nd post, I would seriously have a block check done. Most radiator shops will do this for a small fee. You watch the color of the fluid, blue means good, green or yellow and you have exhaust gases in the coolant. This is what usually means running hot at above idle rpms. My guess is you have warped heads, or cracks in the heads.

    One other thing to consider: is there a bypass hose on the nailhead. If so, this may be clogged and not allowing bypass of the coolant while warming up.

    A way out in left field thought: Exhaust system clogged, or the heat riser valve is stuck in the closed position.
     
  29. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,106

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Huh, 187 at bottom hose, 190 at temp sender?
     
  30. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,974

    sunbeam
    Member

    He said 180 at the top hose. A good system should see 20 degrees or more drop across the radiator.
     

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