Projects My Dale Velzy/Sam Conrad Roadster Build Thread

Man that's going to be Kool.

 

Sorry for the interruption, I've been going through the photo files and looking for pictures that show the process in order. Also went to a swap meet Sunday and met up with Gimpy to deliver a set of headers for one of his projects. Always good to see and BS with him.
I finally found the early pictures of the rear spring mounts and stuff. Note the lovely (and unnecessary Panhard bracket. Again, these brackets were all torched out and ground like I did it in the old days.
Those are the take-off shocks from my wife's Corvair. I bought new high-performance shocks for her car and when I put them on I found that it already had recent high-performance shocks. So I used a pair on the back of the roadster.

 

Before I get too far away from the basic frame I was working with, I'll jump ahead to some photos that really show the construction of the X. At this point I had had the frame sandblasted and epoxy primed by Applied Coatings and Graphics in Lodi, Ca. Good guys, great work.
The frame is boxed, the 2x2 X is plated with 3/16" plate. The "web" in the transmission crossmember was a full plate all the way to the top of the frame with a hole for the tailshaft to go through. That doesn't work - can't get the trans out, so I trimmed it a little. The long oval holes in the front, I added. Basically, you can see how over built it is. They did a nice job though.
Edit: here's the pic I was looking for...

 

It had a P&J 4 bar conversion with a Mustang steering box. It drove and steered great with that setup but it's not an early '60s combination. So I tried both an F1 and an F100 steering box and decided on the F100. I had a newly rebuilt one in stock from when I put P/S in my '55 F100.
Everybody cuts out a new flange and welds it to the box to get the angle needed to match the frame taper. I just didn't want to do that. I had seen in old magazines where guys cut the sidewall of the frame, bent it to the angle required and boxed it back in. This also moves the box outboard a little which would give me a little more room for the starter should I want to keep it on the driver's side. Besides, over the years, I guess several steering box combinations had been tried and the frame was butchered (under the Bondo), poorly patched with scraps of 1/4" plate. So, I cut a fresh piece and welded it in where I needed it to be. Maybe the frame isn't all flat like a stock '32 should be but the modification is hardly noticeable, especially in dark blue with all of the chrome and it adds a bit of '50s character. The picture is after it was finished and primed, couldn't find the fab photos.

 

That's a nice modification on the frame for the steering box

 

Love the steering box mount

 

Thanks. I probably would have just done the tried and true Vern Tardell flange change but the frame was really butchered in the steering box area and I had just recently noted a car in an old magazine with a similar mod. On that car it was not pretty but I thought that the basic idea was good if done cleanly.

 

The front crossmember was a fabricated piece that they made to lower the front a little. Unfortunately, when they welded it in, they didn't account for rake and caster. You can see, in the first picture, how the spring mounting area seems to be tilted forward. With 6-8 degrees of caster adjusted in, the spring was twisted a bunch and the crossmember wouldn't allow a tapered shim and the resultant tilt of the spring in such a narrow channel. So, I welded in some temporary braces and cut it out.
In went a new SoCal front crossmember, 1 1/2" forward of the original location, so there would be room for the Olds with a mechanical fan. I ordered a new Walker radiator so I would have the real thing for mock-up come time to mount the engine. About now, I realized that the front frame horns were fabricated too, three pieces arc welded together. You'd never know, looking at the outside. I also noticed that it was arc welded using stainless welding rod.
I have to say that I really wanted to break out the old stick holder and arc weld everything like I would have back in the '60s. I even went and bought some 6011 (6013?) rod to practice with but when it came right down to it, I always feel better TIG welding chassis stuff. Besides it's all going to get molded/filled anyway.
Someone put a lot of work into this chassis, even the part that looks kinda stock....

Spoiler alert..... motor mounts taking shape.

 

LOVE IT!

 

Thanks Kev. Always been a fan of the cars you’ve built, the problem solving and the craftsmanship.

 

Bob, who's engine mounting brackets ?

 

I bought some Hurst clone motor mounts off of eBay years ago during the parts collecting phase. Real ones were scarce and too expensive. These are pretty accurate. For frame brackets, I did what I would have done back then; made patterns and made them from pieces of 3/16" plate welded together. I mocked it all up using my spare '49 block and a Hydro.
I like my engines a little higher than folks do today, I use a stock fan and raise the engine until the bottom tip of the fan blade is just above the lower tank to core seam. Raise or lower the rear of the trans to get reasonable U-joint angles and call it good.
I like the look of a chrome stock fan spinning behind an old Ford radiator.

 

Love it, keep the updates coming. It's going to be one neat Hot Rod for sure. thank you for sharing

 

Again, made use of the old Ford biscuits to mount the back, kinda like the Olds factory did, a four-point system. More cardboard and more plate. Nice, compact, sturdy little mounts.
A lot of the material that I used came from the horrible boxing plates someone did on the frame of my '33 Ford pickup, a lovely combination of 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4"! I live way out in the boonies and it's a substantial drive to the nearest metal supply company so I use what I have for the most part.
I left the old Chevy tailshaft mounting pad on the crossmember, I may make a rear mount for the transmission using a Chevy pad. Just doesn't look like enough to support that big ol' cast iron trans, does it? Olds thought it was, the jury is still out for me. The old Ford pads ain't what they used to be.

 

The pedal and master cylinder assembly that came in the old car was not their best work. When I got it the pedal ratio was pretty bad and the pedal effort was pretty high. On top of that the pushrod was way off center with the M/C and it had started to leak. So I cut the ear off of the transmission. I added a tube and a bushing to the pedal pivot to give it some stability and some bearing area. Added a mechanical stop, instead of the carpet. Then I remade the M/C bracket to improve the position and angle of the actuating rod. It worked better and gave me some piece of mind, but it was still real bad.


Here you can see where everything was.... Right where a motor mount needed to be.

So I mapped out the pedal location and cut it all out. I mocked everything up and figured out a way to use a real old Ford pedal.
That piece of square tubing with the fractions written on it was my tool for measuring the curvature of the top of the '32 rails. More on that later.

 

I moved the master cylinder to a different place on the X, but the X presented a problem, finding a path for an actuating rod. A big oval hole in the X plate and a cross shaft/bellcrank solved that problem.
Mocking things up to see what goes where....


If the pedal goes there, and the M/C goes there, I'm gonna need....
In the oval hole you can see the plate welded to the 2x2 X....


In the end (after installing the body and steering column) it came out OK.


I'll still need a pedal return stop and a spring....

 

Very cool!
Subscribed!

 

Nice work Bob..

 

Thanks Scott.
Stepping back to the front motor mounts for a minute. There are some threads on here where the builder did an amazing job with front motor mounts and the frame brackets. The latest I've seen was NoChop's deuce 5w and his Olds mounts. Pure art. Several others on here have done similar distinctive, creative and effective designs. I really had to fight the urge to follow suit with this installation. But, it's a quasi-recreation of a car from the early '60s that was built, literally, in his father's driveway with the basic tools of the day. Using the old Hurst frame brackets with the engine as high as I wanted it would have required spacers such as Hurst's U spacers, and I don't like those. So, I built those basic, clunky, frame mounts like an everyday high school guy would have. Sam had Dick Scritchfield (a perfectionist) and Tex Smith (very clever and resourceful) helping him and they still ended up with a very simple yet memorable hot rod. I keep that in mind with each decision point I encounter.

 

Well, technical difficulties continue to plague me, and my IT person (daughter) just left for a 14 day Hawaiian vacation. I transferred most of the photos to my main desktop and started organizing files and today it appears that my monitor failed. So I'll have to do a little update on my ancient laptop....
The bar that I pointed out before with the numbers on it is a quick straight edge that I made to plot the curvature of the top of the '32 frame. The bottom of the '28 body is flat, so there is a gap between the two when the body is installed on the frame. I considered flattening the top of the frame but with the X and boxing that was just too invasive. Some of the old timers cut a piece of hardwood to fit and fill the gap, some used individual pieces, but looking from a low level, you can see the shim and individual pieces look terrible. The previous builder used a piece of a pallet and some plywood.
So I cut a piece of square tubing to the proper length, clamped it where the body sits, measured the gap every 6", and wrote it as graduations on the bar. There were slight differences side to side but nothing significant. I bought two lengths of 1"x 4" oak, transferred the dimensions to the edge of the boards with a Sharpie, and wondered how in the hell to cut a five foot long oak 1x4 through it's edge accurately. I have an 18" wood band saw that I used to use for cutting out aluminum motor plates and marine mounts so I dusted it off and tried a cut. Needless to say it wandered and I couldn't control the board well enough to get a good cut. Did I mention that I'm no woodworker? I hate working with wood. My Dad was the woodworker in the family, I didn't inherit that gene. Back to the lumber yard for more oak planks.
I ended up using a 90 degree plate from my mill, clamped a few inches back from the blade to act as a steady rest so I could keep the board vertical as I cut it. Following my Sharpie line, it worked great. The next step was to remount the body and see if I could get the doors adjusted.
The body was previously mounted with several long bolts that went all the way through the frame rails with nuts on the bottom (ugh), and a couple decent rear mounts added by my buddy. I made inserts from some long 3/8-16 self-locking nuts, turning them down and leaving a little shoulder so they wouldn't fall into the frame. I marked and drilled oversize holes and chamfered the top so that the shoulder would sit down in it. I TIG welded them in. I put them in locations that would make shimming and adjusting the body and doors easier.
It took a few iterations, putting the body on, taking it off, putting it on, but eventually I got the body bolted down securely and the doors to open and close nicely. Unfortunately, I didn't take many pictures during this fiasco other than the end result. The long, wide body shims will be trimmed during final installation, then shellacked and painted body color.



The profile…..

The homemade inserts….

 

Bob, in a pinch I have had to use my tv as my monitor. Need a hdmi cable between the two and change the tv to the hdmi port if both units are hdmi compatible.
Nice work on the oak fillers...

 

Thanks.
I do have a couple tvs out in the back room, I’ll check and see if they have HDMI access.

 

Sorry for the delay. My 93 y.o. Mom's caregiver ended up in the hospital so we are all doing shifts at Mom's house, my computers are not cooperating, and my backup IT guy was a no-show. And of course, I picked this time to order and install A/C in my shop since it's been 100+ here for weeks. Just a few minor distractions.
With the new shims and inserts I reinstalled the body and got the doors aligned quickly. Time for the firewall. Sam's car had a flat, mahogany firewall made by Tex Smith's father. It and the rear wheel arch inserts were a trademark of this car. The workmanship was beautiful. But I just couldn't do a wooden firewall.
I installed the front crossmember 1.5" forward from the stock position. I installed the Olds with a stock fan, nice and close to the new Walker radiator and I fully expected to install the body and use a stock or a flat firewall. Well, apparently, I need to sharpen up my math skills. All fit well with just the short block but when I went to install the heads and distributor, oops.... With the heads installed it was apparent that the firewall could not be stock. Even the valve covers encroached on the stock firewall. What the hell??? So, I just got creative. I do not like those generic firewalls from several sources that look like boxes, so I decided to make the recess fit the need and use larger radii instead of square corners.
I like choices, so I mocked it up using the various valve covers and distributors that I might want to use to determine the needed clearance.


The Edelbrock covers are a bit taller....


There was a bunch of poorly done repairs under the "skim-coat" of Bondo on the firewall, but it will be ok once it's all finished.... (never mind the headers)

 

Bob....looks great...awesome project!!

 

Looking good!
I went down a similar path with my '23
Only I got the car together and driving before I realized I couldn't fit any distributor larger or taller than stock.
Stock works just fine but it'd be nice to have options.

 

When I got the roadster, it had been updated with Pete & Jakes front suspension. Although it drove fine, it just couldn't stay like that. So, all those brackets, 4 bar, shocks and steering box, all got shaved off. It all found a new home via Craigslist.


After some investigation, it appeared that the axle is an old, welded Okie Adams unit. It has been thoroughly checked out and replated.

The disc brakes that were on the car when I got it were installed using some homemade brackets and bearing spacers, and they had turned down the spindles for different bearings. Besides looking like hell, the homemade kit pushed the wheels out to where the scrub radius was totally unacceptable. I installed an inexpensive Speedway kit and replaced the spindles so I could drive the car with a clear conscience. It did drive much better with the wheels and tires pulled in. They have since given way to early Ford drums.

 

Sam's car had beautiful old-style chrome bolt-on radius rod brackets, like the Tom McMullen roadster, along with simple welded on shock brackets. From available pictures I made similar brackets. The radius rod brackets now have additional plates welded on the inside that bolt to the bottom of the frame with additional 3/8" bolts. Something I learned the hard way on my '33 5w years ago. I had those other brackets lying around but just couldn't bring myself to use them. The Sam, Tex and Dick fabbed brackets are so much of a character feature, I just had to make some.
Yeah, those are store bought SoCal hairpins. I started out to make some per the Tex Smith article in the magazine, but I just like the look of SoCal's and I ran across a smokin' deal on eBay so....


Radius rod bracket and vintage Pitman arm fit check....


Shock bracket mocked up....

 

Wowee Super. And most of the time I was asleep, or looking the other way. Love at first sight.

 

Nice work Bob one day I will need to go deeper in to mine current working on a 28 roadster on a 31 frame with a 47 Flateey but right now I just want to drive it get it safe and drive it every day I to have a love hate relationship with computers why cant they be more like hammers hammers aways work keep the updates coming

 

Nice, The car has a cool story, and your doing it justice.
I had a similar 'incident; with the 348 in my 40, fitted great with stock early rocker covers, but needed a little 'adjustment' for the Offenhausers. I'm also stuck with the Mallory, no room for anything else, hope it works ok..