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Mustang II front end control arm/spring problem

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tom morookian, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. 50flathead
    Joined: Mar 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,101

    50flathead
    Member
    from Iowa, USA

    If your springs are loaded with all the weight they will carry, your springs are too stiff. Cutting coils can be an option and is a mater of trial, try cutting a 1/2 coil and see what you get. Next step is to install lighter springs.
     
  2. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 10,147

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I just went out to the garage and shot a few pictures for you.

    I have a brand new TCI 35-40 Ford chassis.

    The measurement of 34 1/2 " is from shock hole to shock hole, center to center width of the shock towers.

    I also took one shot looking straight down on the shock tower so you can see where the slotted holes are in relation to the outside surface of the frame rail.

    And one shot of how it sits with mockup rods in place of the shocks.

    My chassis is right from TCI and uses the tubular control arms that are narrowed by 5/8" on each side.

    Hope this helps a little. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Thanks for the pictures. I'm going to pull the springs today and trial fit by cutting 1/2 coil and maybe 1 whole coil off. I've got to replace the ball joint rubbers anyway as they where crushed when they hit the spring.

    Can you get me a measurement of the upper control arm from the bolt centerline to the center of the grease fitting? My car is fully assembled so it's hard to get a measurement but, I will do it.
     
  4. FWIW...I used threaded rod to replace my shocks when we built the 37. This would allow you to adjust the ride height without cutting the coils at this time. Would seem simpler to me than cutting and reinstalling only to find out that they have to be cut again.
     
  5. ARTSWRK
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 393

    ARTSWRK
    Member

    Thank you everyone for all the info!
     
  6. George/Maine
    Joined: Jan 6, 2011
    Posts: 949

    George/Maine
    Member

    All manufactors Try to get the same end result.Thats to get the wheels out were they should be.Some use 5/8 narred aarms some standard aarms.If you take and use staight edge or what ever draw a line on floor under ball joint.Now I think that kits use a standard arms. narrawed from ball joint to other side is about 46 3/4" and stock is 48"inches.
    You could have crossember drilled wrong,wrong lower,
    when apart just see how close you are to my figures.
     
  7. Spring position in the crossmember kit is far too outboard for stock springs. This is for the convenience of the kit manufacturer and installation without consideration for the actual use.

    Please stop doing this. Increasing positive camber may solve your ball joint interference problem but is not helping your alignment and you could be weakening your upper control arm mountings.

    Instead of trying to fabricate some sort of limiting strap for your suspension, shit can those funky front shocks you have. The stock Mustang II front shocks are the suspension bump and rebound limiters. The shocks you have installed appear to have a considerable amount of thread on them. I can see thread under the spring pocket and I shouldn't be able to.

    They should look like this:

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    There are a few shocks available for manufacturers who have spread the upper and lower control arm mounting positions to accommodate taller frame rail sections. Yours appear to be of this variety and not proper for your application.

    Stock springs are going to be too high in spring rate and length as you have found out. Stock being 375 lb/in or so and about 14" long free length. Considering the position of the spring you have, it's effective effort has been increased requiring a lower rate spring. These should ride a bit better and lower the suspension down to the point where it will work.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDT-MP-007-275/

    [​IMG]

    You will be much happier with the results if you do these two things, proper shocks and springs. Don't over think this, it's been done thousands of times before and guys like me have the experience to guide you through this :D
     
  8. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 10,147

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta


    I just measured my upper control arm, the measurement you asked for is 7 1/4''.

    The height from the lower control arm pivot bolt to the top of the shock tower is an important measurement too. It should be about 9 1/2".

    If your measurements are different than what I gave you then you will have problems.

    If your shock towers are wider than the 34 1/2" width from shock hole to shock hole or if your towers are higher than the 9.5" then that could be your trouble.
     
  9. Over at my friend's shop today and took some pics of a JW HotRod Kit on a 37 Chevy frame for comparison sakes. Don't know if this is even relevant or not but thought I would send this along for your review. The springs came with the kit and donot appear cut. The lower control arms are parallel with the ground and the front end has had a first alignment to get things fairly straight for now.
     

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  10. Cut 3/4 of a coil out and re-installed the spring. Lower control arm is now "level" to the ground with the car on it's tires. This moved the upper arm so the top of the ball joint is level with the top of the spring tower. I now have about 7/16 inch clearance between the ball joint and the tower. That is with the t-bolts at the full outside limit. Should be just enough room to adjust the camber ( I hope).

    It was hard to measure the upper arm accurately with the bodywork covering it but, it is about 7 1/8 from the t-bolt center line to the hole for the grease fitting.

    Installed new shocks and these limit the down motion of the control arms. It appears that the limit is about 1 1/2 inches down. I fabricated some 3/16 steel brackets that will bolt to the crossmember and hit the lower control arm to limit the travel so the upper ball joint stays clear of the spring when the car is jacked up. Then I'll install shocks that wont be "topped out" at this length. I just don't like the idea of the shocks being the thing that limits downward travel.

    I'll post more pictures after the lower "stops" are installed.

    Thanks to all for their input!
     
  11. George/Maine
    Joined: Jan 6, 2011
    Posts: 949

    George/Maine
    Member

    I was over to Southern Rods and looking at there narrowed arms.
    They can,t even tell a upper from a lower.LOL
    What i did find it the top one is 5/8 narrower,
    and get this the lower is "1" inch narrower.
    If you are still hitting in any way get the grinder out.
    If all else fails buy the stock ones,
    you will gain 5/8 top and out 1 inch on bottom.
    How are the tires do they hit fender.
     
  12. HooRay! Cutting 3/4 of one coil off the springs got the lower control arm level and gained over 1/4 inch of clearance of the ball joint from the shock tower.

    Adjusted the camber to +1 degree an still have over 1/8 inch clearance with the t-bolts near the center of the slot.

    The shocks still limit the downward movement to about 1 1/4 inch so I will try for some that are at least 1 inch longer.

    I install some 3/16 thick steel brackets to limit the downward movement when the car is up on a lift. See the pics.

    Guys, Thanx a bunch for the help.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. WelderSeries
    Joined: Sep 20, 2007
    Posts: 762

    WelderSeries
    Alliance Vendor

    I hope I'm just seeing things, but double check the weld in the last picture just above and to the left of the bracket you bolted on...
     
  14. banditomerc
    Joined: Dec 18, 2005
    Posts: 2,109

    banditomerc
    Member

    Dittos,looks to be a hairline crack.better safe than sorry.:cool:
     
  15. Holy COW! You are correct. there was a crack in the weld. I guess I was fixated on the bracket installation not the weld. Since I did the install from "behind" the axle line I guess I never looked closely at the other side of the assembly.

    I attacked the area with a carbide tip on my dremyl to clean it up and then, with the welding rod sticking straight out from the handle I could poke it right into the crack.

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZit, 2 passes locked in the frame to the cross member.

    You guys surely save me a big headache or a catastrophy in the future. THANKS

    I did check the other welds and all look OK.
     
  16. skidsteer
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 1,251

    skidsteer
    Member

    This is a great thread, and an example of the power of the HAMB. Maybe even saved a guy from a wreck. If you have to cut those springs again, there is a way to do it without taking them off the car, using a bottle jack, but I'm hoping you won't have to do that.
     
  17. WelderSeries
    Joined: Sep 20, 2007
    Posts: 762

    WelderSeries
    Alliance Vendor

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