motley crue got nothin' on us, it's the (early) MONTHLY BANGER meeting!

I'm confused?

Does running the cam in reverse now mean that the intakes now work as exhausts and the exhausts as inlets and the engine is fully operational?

 

yes.

 

My engine is off the machine shop for BIG valves and balancing - the aluminum bits are at the polisher for BLINGING. Thanks to Brent for all the help on this.

Should have it back together soon and banging out some noise!

 

It doesn't have to. With a special ground cam the engine can run backward with the intakes being intakes and exhaust being exhausts.

 

I tried reversing my cam but I couldn't get the timing gear to mesh with the flywheel!

Took out my rear axle drain plug at the weekend to find half a tooth in the bottom of the casing, it is half a crown wheel tooth. Will it run like this? Could have been like it for years? Was going to fit 3.54's anyway but want to get the dam thing on the road ASAP first to shake it down.
Still waiting on a delivery from Macs before I can get the motor buttoned up and back in, so just tinkering around and doing crappy little jobs till it arrives
Rich

 

Boom Boom!

When you say 'half a tooth', Rich, how much is half? Is it just the tip or more than that? It may be okay to run as is....
Got to be honest, I'd be tempted to fit the 3.54's now, rather than get it all together and have to strip the rear end down afterwards.

 

doug
this isnt to reverse the rotation of the motor
its to make the exhaust ports work as intake so that you have an intake port for each cylinder

 

I'll say again, I think it would work good for a short race motor only. And then only if you really hogged the crap out of the exhaust ports and ran a custom big tube header with no back pressure. Bobby, you sly devil, how long you had that cam?

 

I assume you meant hogged out inlets not exhaust?

Is the reason for hogged out inlets because it is now being used as a siamesed exhaust port?

Now if that is the case, the principles of re-working ports still applys in that you don't want oversized ports.

Now corresct me if I'm wrong here...

Even though two cylinders are using one port, the two cylinders are not dumping their exhaust into the port at the same time. The engine see's 4 exhaust ports even though there are only two.

An example of this is with 'A' series engines in Austin Mini's with their 5 port (2 inlet, 3 exhaust) head layout. No. 2 and 3 cylinder share a siamesed exhaust but it functions as two seperate ports as the exhaust timing is 180 degrees apart on these two cylinders.

 

OK, I am going to continue my manners of pissing off the banger troops but I am going to challenge you on your advise. What you are saying does not make sense --nor does it fall in line with my experiences or anyone else that I know that has done this conversion.

Since you have posted it twice, lets see if we can "debunk this myth". If need be I will go out and shoot a picture or two of the port configuration to refresh your memory but let's start with looking at the water passages. There is just as much waterflow around the siamesed port as an normal exhaust port in it's stock location. Because you have two cylinders emptying into one port does not mean the temperatures rise double. (Now while we are speaking of this, picture in your mind how many exhaust ports a flathead V-8 Ford has. Also, how about early Chevy?) Therefore I trust you will see that this method is tried and proven with some success.

Also understand that you do not have the same amount of air & fuel exiting the cylinders as you do entering the cylinders. The spent gas volume is less. Therefore you do not even need to hog the port size to gain anything because it is plenty large enough now. The new exhaust ports will flow plenty of air and since you will have a free-flowing exhaust system, the heat will roll right on through.

Next, look at the water passages around the port. Notice that neither the intake or exhaust port has any water jacket flow on the bottom side. That is because it isn't needed as heat rises and so the bottom of the port stays cooler. Also realize that in stock configuration you have a very restrictive manifold whereas a header creates very little backpressure or gas retainage in the port(s).

Now for the "next" Next. One of the problems with two-port banger and it's stock firing order is that #1 cylinder gets a good load of fuel however the next cylinder in the firing order (#2) only get's what is left over. In other words, it runs lean. Lean means it runs hotter. Hotter can lead to valve problem however there is more to this problem that we'll address next. Also, many of the older Grinders did something that Jr. Drag Racers have found is not needed. Many of the older grinds actually have more duration on the exhaust side. What Briggs guys have learned is the banger exhaust valve and port, in stock configuration, is too large to get good scavenging.

Now to the valve seat cracking issue. Many times we see valve problems because the valve does not set long enough on the seat to dissepate the heat. Then the valve burns or warps ...which creates excessive heat on the seat ...which leads to cracks. Also, many guys have ground the valves so much that the valve is almost ready to fall through the seat. Couple this with blocks that have had the decks whittled down, and yes you can have the potential for cracks around the port areas however this is more isolated instances and not "the norm".

Some times people need to understand why something was done --or not done very often. To build a 4port flathead requires the cam grinder to use a billet blank to grind his camshaft. These sticks were very hard to come by in the day. Even today a billet cam will set you back $400.00+ dollars. The easier way was to buy a cam that had been re-ground from a stock blank. Therefore back in the day, it was easier for someone that had the "ability" to build a 4 port flathead to go ahead and build an overhead banger engine.

So, what do you gain by converting to a 4 port flathead? Probably 5-8 extra ponies on an 80 Hp "built" 2 port banger flathead (--and this Hp # is strictly my guess). In the grand scheme of things, by the time you either convert the engine to a 4 port by having a billet camshaft ground --or converting to a timing chain (and then using a flathead V-8 oil pump), ......plus building a special intake manifold and header, you will have considerable money & time invested in those 5-8 horses. Most would say it is not worth the effort.




While I was penning the above, 4ever4 made his post which is correct so I'll make my comments here. The only thing that is worth noting is that exhaust port number 1 has cylinder #1 make it's exhaust and then immediately followed by cylinder #2 making it's exhaust. Then cylinder #4 make's it exhaust followed by #3. This has the potential to make the port a little bit hotter but a banger actually flows quite a bit of water, especially if you move the pump to the side and force the cooling water.

 

Thank you Brent, I was wondering how much sh-----t I'd have to throw to get you to come back and enlighten us with your knowledge. You don't hurt my feelings as I've never changed ports and have only been guessing, thanks for the lession.--TV

 

10-4, I was thinking of reversing engine rotation, not reversing induction.

 

Well - Mark showed up yesterday with the Riley headed engine freshly installed in the Standard. Still bedding it in - starts on the handle, but too much compression or too tight for the starter - but it cuts along just fine with just a whiff of throttle. Carb is a Zenith of a 509 Fiat? Bonnet "side" is temporary till the carb decision is final - doesn't fit beneath the original louvred panel...

 

How big is that Fiat carb? It doesn't loook much bigger than a stock Zenith.

 

Wow...just wow.
Agree about the carb, there's ponies in there waiting to get out with a decent induction. Though a single updraught does look good....

 

I think that sweety could use at least two of those carbs. How much compression is it running?--TV

 

Hi guys at has been a long time since my last post.It has been a long cold winter,it's getting warmer now and i can maybe get something done now.
What kind of fan can i use on my motor.I put a V8 water pump on it and can see no way to put on a fan.I would hate not being able to use it as it cost alot of money.This is my first banger and i don't know how hot it will get.I am running a 200R4 trans with a cooler.
The picture of the English car has a fan on it. What pump and fan are they?I have a new stock Model A with the good seals that i would like to sell,cost $110 would take $85 for it,also new aluminum fan,$25.
Ever thing i do on this car i do 2-3 times.I guess that is the price to pay.I'am making the bracket for the throttle and down shift cables,making my throttle pedal,fuel lines from fuel block to carbs.When that is done then do the wiring.I am getting close.

 

So this is where you guys went. Left the Plymouth guy on the old page. Sort of the story of my life. Anyway, here is another picture of the '26-'28 Dodge crankcase. Also a cylinder head from days gone by. Anyone recognize it?

 

Also the ports seem to swap from side to side in each picture, which means you have two heads...early V8: Wills-St. Claire? I have never seen the head off of one of the SOHC Hisso V8's.

On a side, we like to do one of these little gatherings each month, so keep an eye out that start..

 

Hey guys I am new to the BANGER world. I have been bit by the bug. I spent the past couple nights in deep research. So here is my question? What is the most reliable horsepower (no budget) that you could feasibly get out of the Model a banger Combo???? On the flip what is the most with a budget around 4-5K? Sorry if these are redundant questions I am just wanting as much info as possible...

 

It's a V8 head. Think early 40s. US made.

 

no such thing as "most reliable..."

a well built and drivable (which may be open to your interpretation) flat head at the 5k range should make over 100hp and hold together for a long time.

 

Hi Rich, don't know what it is, must be from across the pond. Sure do like your block, the more of them mains the better. I'm working on getting a 5 main early Banger block and crank, that is if I can afford it? --TV

 

This side. Think Rouge River. Crankcase and top pictures attached. I know this is not banger stuff. But it is old.

 

a DOHC American V8...from the 40's (marine application)? made in Oregon? very cool!

anything old a cool is always a blast to look at. though i sometimes go a little to old and odd ball.

Apparently i can't read, so I am going to shut up and go away. (Michigan)

 

That's Rouge as in red in French, not Rogue as in Oregon.

 

Okay fess up!....we've all been in suspense long enough!

 

Has anyone thought about using a newer model 4 cylinder head? I mean if people can use a V8 head why not a newer head.

 

Don't know if someone else guessed right (though I read through the post) but I think it is either a Fiat or Peugeot. both had OHC cars in the 20's. I think the world thought they were a bunch of crazy people.

Sorry, it looks like I missed the posts on Page 2 about the Hisso.

 

it is this...a recreation of the Blitzen Benz in one of its iterations, (I believe) as driven by Barney Oldfield. As with all racing cars there modifications through out their lives.

(i have merely photographed the car, and am not claiming an particular lineage for the vehicle, but merely what is represented in my pictures. The following are additional historical images.)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rc06258.jpg