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Model A subframes/floor pans

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Nailhead A-V8, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    I'm trying to peice together a model A roadster from a pile of rusty panels that I've nickel and dimed together over a number of years. Actually when I add it all up it really hasn't been all that cheap a way to go but at the outset it looked that way. At least it has been easier to store and move several times now i've got enough subframe junk to get started but I don't really know whats what. I thought some of these restorer sites might yeild pics of the original floorpans and subframes but internet research ain't my forte. There are subtle differences between years and body styles. I'm hoping this thread will end up being a comprehensive database of information. So far I know the coupe and roadster rear crossmember is different than the sedan(more curved) and that '28 only has the 3 holes for the taillight. Here are what I have and pics i've found:
     

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  2. walls
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 542

    walls
    Member

    I've done some reading on the topic and still don't know anything for certain.
    FordBarn may be your best bet.
    Those guys should know the specifics year to year, model to model.
     
    Nailhead A-V8 likes this.
  3. budd
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 3,478

    budd
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  4. woodypecker
    Joined: Jan 23, 2011
    Posts: 300

    woodypecker
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    Here is the dirty side of a 31 pickup.
     

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  5. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,445

    Carter
    Member

    I've got a lot of info and pictures on 28 & 29 roadster subframe and floor pan parts. Let me know what info or pictures you need. I just pieced my 29 roadster together. Did tons of research.

    Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app
     
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  6. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Hey Carter,
    I'll take anything you have might as well down load it to here if you have the time and the inclination i'm sure others are on the same path. So far i've seen a few "stock" pans and there are some obvious differences maybe related to year or maybe to different manufacturing plants. The most original car i have seen
     
  7. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    has an underseat floor pan with straight horizontal beads and a seat riser with the lip around it, then I have also seen another with the same x bead as mine (in the pic) and a roadster pickup that had the non lip seat riser. To make matters more confusing there is also the pocket style underseat pan which I understand was used for tourings but I think i've seen this pan on what I think are '30-'31 subframe rails they have a wider flare at the side of the subframe rails near the door than the earlier rails. I think both of the repro subframes in the pics are using the early type.
     
  8. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    The rear floorpans are just as confusing there is the slant floor pan which runs up into the curved panel behind the seat that holds the rear rail of one of the styles of seat pans but which one? my guess is the one with the lip but I have both and neither seem to have the same rivet holes as the crossmember I think this is the rumble seat car floor. Then there is the flat pan with the "squares" bead pattern (shown on repro)was this the trunk lid car floorpan? Do both trunk and rumble cars have the same angled riser in the trunk floor?
     
  9. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Thanks for the measurements Budd. I know this is a hot rod site and I should just go steal a stop sign and pop rivet it in but before I do that does anyone else want to throw their 2 cents in?
     
  10. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,445

    Carter
    Member

    Sorry, I haven't had a chance to post pictures or measurements for you yet, but I will tomorrow.
     
  11. I'm all in with what I know, which may not be much.

    I've collected a bone stock floor frame of unknown origin. I was going to use it for a 28/29 A modified.

    I noticed a difference in the side rails behind the rear quarter. One frame I had was bulged in that area and the other was not.(see photo)



    DSC_0122bhl.jpg DSC_0123bhl.jpg
    28/29 left pic. 30/31? right pic.

    I was going to start a similar thread, but I helped my friend tear his 30/31 sedan apart, and behold, his car had the same shape as the second photo with the bump behind the quarter.

    Based on this I assume that the rails with the bump are later A and the other is earlier A.
     
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  12. Here are photos of a 30-31 roadster floor. This is what I started with. There is a difference in the curved panel between a rumble seat and trunk but I believe the rest is the same as a coupe.
     

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  13. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Thanks guys the pics really help! PS the one w/o the bulge appaers to have the angled floor pan ala roadster. I mentioned the bulges before and thought the same thing. Can you get anymore pics of the subframes? Does it have the rear crossmember on it? If so the coupe/roadster has a straighter profile which rounds of to a recess on the sides the sedan has more curve near the ends and is flat on the sides. The scraps of floor pan i saw that had the wider bulge also had the envelope underseat pan and the angled floor. 62 is that the envelope pan leaning up in the last pic? Since we know yours is a '30-'31 do you have the wider bulge?
     
  14. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    The model A roadster has a peice of channel spot welded to the subframe and a kick plate that curves around it has the under door body line bead. The kick plate on PS's sub leads me to believe it is a 28 or 29 coupe as I doubt they used the angled floor in sedans. The full subframe in my pics is a '28 2 door sedan as my rear crossmember has the 3 holes and the sedan curve. It also has different rear rails with indents and bulges different than the coupe and the 3rd crossmember is closer to the rear.
     
  15. What is leaning against the shed is a curtain pan. Holds the side curtains for a roadster top under the seat. I am not using it, I liked the flat floor better. My subframe does have the buldge and if you look at the photos it is for the wheel well fit. As far as holes lining up in the panels I had to weld some shut and relocate as they were all off.
     

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  16. The first picture in the above post is an early 28(AR?) Sport Coupe with rumble seat. The panel I assume you are refering to is a cubby hole for the rumble seat pasengers to put their feet under. The other panel at the very back, as you can see in the photo in the post above is for placing the seat frame on in a rumble seat car.

    Here are some more pictures of the 30/31 floor frame and some file shots of a 28/29 two door sedan. At first glance you can tell a 2dr. sedan floor frame by the four hinge points for the front seats to tilt forward so passengers can get in the back. In the car I took the pictures of there are only the passenger side brackets in place.

    IMG_3404b.jpg IMG_3403b.jpg

    28 Model A 005bhl.jpg Mod A interior 007bhl.jpg

    Model A Sedan 009bhl.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
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  17. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,445

    Carter
    Member


    I think what you are referring to on the 28/9 roadsters is the sill plate and sill plate bracket.

    Let me post some of the pictures I've got. Check out my build thread also.
     
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  18. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,445

    Carter
    Member

    Ok, here's most of what I've got.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In the next one the sill plate bracket is visible.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Next one shows sill plate.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,445

    Carter
    Member

    Here's my original 29 roadster subframe

    [​IMG]

    Overhead view during mock up.

    [​IMG]

    Beginning body assembly.

    [​IMG]

    More.

    [​IMG]

    I used a curtain pan under the seat instead of a floor pan, because I had it, and liked the extra storage. Not sure if it would be correct for my car.
    [​IMG]

    Inner trunk panel.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. E Burfield
    Joined: Dec 31, 2006
    Posts: 130

    E Burfield
    Member

    How far off are the repop sub rail's to the O.G one's? I have a pile of stuff and getting ready to do the same. Thank's.
     
  21. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Gentlemen,
    Thank you very much for the pics they've all been very enlightening. Here's a brief synopsis of what i've gleaned; seat risers: lipped='28-'31 roadster, non lipped='28-'29 coupe/roadster pickup; underseat pan: 4 types,curtain pan, x pan, ribbed pan,dished pan=totally random?; rear pan 2 styles, curved small x pattern pan='28-'31 rumble seat, flat squares pattern pan='28-'31 trunk lid; subframe rails: wider bulge='30-'31 coupe/roadster; sill plate bracket=roadster,rdstr p/u & touring; rear crossmember: 2 types curved=sedan, flat=coupe/roadster, 3 hole='28
     
  22. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    E,
    I don't know i got the pics from e-bay. they look pretty good though. one of the links further up goes to anther page that has a link for a really good step by step rebuild of a '30 coupe on the fordgarage site the guy is using repro rails
     
  23. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    It also appears I have some wood to replace :( Carter are you riveting it all back together?
     
  24. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,445

    Carter
    Member

    Yes, it is all riveted. It's not as bad as you think. I was intimidated by all of the riveting before I did it. Now, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
     
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  25. carmuts
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 874

    carmuts
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  26. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Maybe try to pm Carter http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/carters-29-roadster-build-thread.680005/ he has a ton of info and pics I didn't have a torch handy so I did it the hard way I sliced a cross into the bottom of small bolts then used a punch to spread the bolt when tight I put a weld in the center it looks like rivets from above and can still be drilled out without mangling the sheet metal like plug welds
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  27. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Reviving this....I ended up just trading off the sedan sub rails as they were too different to be of much use, the '30-31's are quite different too, sedan subs can't be used on coupes/roadsters and 30-1 subs can't be used on a '28-9 & vice versa...there seems to be a few people doing this at the moment. How do I get a sticky on this?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  28. Manager
    Joined: Mar 22, 2014
    Posts: 239

    Manager
    Member

    I have a tudor subframe that came with my 29 coupe body. From the door pillar back is completely different as well as being too short. They say coupe and roadster subframes are different. Anyone know where? I can get my hands on some roadster rear sections locally. Are roadster and coupe the same from the coupe door pillar back? If so I can use the Tudor front and the roadster sections at the rear?
    Thanks, John.
     
    Nailhead A-V8 likes this.
  29. This is going to help me SO much. I recently picked this up. Definitely needs a lot of work, especially finding the metal to connect to the cowl.



    145488031_243279057258899_3166886891061207163_n.jpg
     
  30. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,101

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    You're laughing....that's 95% of it right there including the never found intact rear floor pan!
     
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