Hot Rods Model A body on ‘32 chassis WITH FENDERS- Help!

Couple of things I don't think have been addressed. If you go to a manual tranny, the radius rods on the rear are not gonna make it. With the automatic, maybe they will.

On the previous tail light evidence in the rear panel, that doesn't necessarily mean it was a fenderless car. It may have been just a customizing choice. Tail lights on the fenders was a STOCKER kind of thing back then and different tail lights was an update.

I think your plan was to honor your Dad. I wouldn't get too far from his idea of the car he bought.

I have 4 kids and I asked all of them which ones of the 30 cars I have do they want when I am too old or dead and 3 of the 4 picked the same car! It is what I call my Ugly Duckling, a '62 Dodge Lancer 4dr that I put a 340 in. The car was my late Brother's that had a really fast slant 6 but he always wanted a 340 in it so that is what I did when the slant 6 got rattly. My oldest Daughter said she was the only one that actually knew my Brother Wayne so she should be the one that gets it and that was good enough for me. Reese, it's your Dad's car now isn't it? Maybe he will leave it to you some day. You have lots of years left for fun cars, God willing.

I have a '40 Ford Tudor that was my Dad's and a OT '68 Barracuda Coupe 340 4spd that was Dad's too. I was lucky and he gave me the '40, 40 years ago when my Brother got killed and the Barracuda when he got old enough that he couldn't sniff out the State Police and got caught at 120 mph so he said it was time for me to come get it. Lots of my cars have history like that. My avatar '29 AV8 was built by a fella in 1958 by a 16 year old who is now a good friend. It had not been run since the mid 70's. I am preserving it. Any changes I am forced to do I actually take it to him to get his honored approval. I really feel that's the right thing to do. What you guys do is of course up to you but as you have read, many feel much like I do. Preserve as much as you can.

Sorry if this is too wordy, just my 2 cents worth, or maybe $5.00 these days!

Dave

 

You say that like it's a bad thing....

 

Riff this reminds me of your car...But this is also about passion and the soul of
a vintage Hotrod...
This Fella 'A'ced it...it has its own character your's will have another but in a similar vain...





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Where the hell do you find these things Stogy!? Great video. That car has a lot of similarities to ours: fenders, high headlights, model a taillights. I couldn’t tell if it was on Duece frame. Makes me regret letting the original shop blast the original paint off. The paint was in really bad shape with a bunch of flaking and bondo showing through...
Keith from Rexrods is following up on some leads with someone who knew the previous owners. I’m really looking forward to seeing what comes of that.



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I just looked again and it looks like it’s on a Model a frame.


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Thanks for the comments Dave.


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It is but at a glance they are very similar...I just thought it might inspire thats all...I found another and I feel again it's right near yours in period and again its on an A Frame but it should give you a feel how much potential yours has...I posted the link and please disregard what it has become...it happens...





https://www.hotrod.com/articles/telling-tale-historic-1930-ford-model-roadster-decades-overdue/

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@TheBougiePunk This roadster has the "bad ass" attitude even with fenders! I happen to think it is more so because of the fenders and perfect stance combination!

 

I really like the pics that are 196?...there really is no ifs...It is raw gleaning Data...It has been suggested the threads straying...I don't think so...Your Hotrod is in the shop and you are pretty vigilant and eager to get it back on track...

I'm sure we'll be third to know the details as they evolve...

1rst...You
2nd...Reese
3rd...Us...

Again I know when this threads done there's going to be a pretty Excited Riff...a Black 'A'cy Deucy and that will take some time...but that is life in the fast lane...

 

Ok sir-since you are such a talented researcher and authority, how about some advice on a couple of items? I have the original headlight bar that attached to the fenders, but it put the location of the lights too high. I’d like to lower them to give the car a little bit more of an aggressive look. What’s the best way to do this? I’ve seen some bars with a little bend on the ends that still attach to fenders but put the lights lower. I’d like to use the original ‘32 bar if I can.

Also, I’ve heard a lot of feedback on the suspension. I don’t know enough to make the call here. The builder thinks the home-built cross members will probably be ok, but many here think we should go with a big x-member and move the split wishbones (at least the rear ones) closer to the center point of the car. The x-member will cause all kinds of further mods with the tranny, bones, and other parts. Should we just rebuild it as it was (after cleaning, painting, and lubing all the parts) and see how it drives for a few months, or bite the bullet and redesign the entire chassis to make sure it’s safe and solid?

Also, how valuable is the original naugahyde upholstery? I’m inclined to re-use it but put it on new foam and springs. Maybe add some different color inserts or accents. Or I could sell it off and go with a more interesting color than plain white for the interior.

Is it worth getting the original SW gauges rebuilt? Or should I go with new replica gauges?

Builder is recommending we go with a dual master cylinder set up mounted under the dash behind the manifold, with swinging pedals, rather than the single master cylinder mounted in plain sight on the firewall.



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I would highly consider having the existing gauges at least looked at by http://www.williamsons.com/Tachometers.php
He can check out the tach too, that's what he is known for.

 

I like that your learning...and I'm pretty sure your having fun too...AND you have a Hotrod on the Go...Model A's did have a Skirts or Splash Aprons to cover the gap and less stylized narrower frame between the running board and body.

The 32 Frame was made more stylized as it was visible and the splash apron and taller filling the gap between the running board and body...One of the attributes of the 32 frame that is spoken of as a special design feature is the curved section near the cowl called the reveal which I 'm pretty sure your lower front fenders follow on the way up from the boards...this is just stuff...

 

Don’t be worried about blasting the paint off. It was chipping/delaminating exposing a base coat which likely means it was an early 70’s paint job with a clear coat. It was probably painted in this succession:

1. original alkyd enamel

2. Hot Rodded in 60’s with acrylic enamel

3. Repaint with 70’s early basecoat/clearcoat and laid on really thick. Probably around 5 mils or so.




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Wow those are tough questions and a lot of the fellas including me have suggested some form of improvement in the center area...I'm mechanically inclined but not a chassis or suspension builder or specialist. I just have my knowledge of which pales to a great many who have advised already...

I snapped pics of whats under my car which is running modern stuff...Ladder bars attached to 57 Chev rear using Ladder attach kit and tube shock mounts on rear end, Fwd ladders attach to a tube with ladder bracketry welded or attached to boxed inner frame with tube trans crossmember bolted to drop plate from boxed frame...












I would go ladder as the potential braking rear bone situations worries me and its sixties and ladders were around traditional or inspired and I would mount them as required with suggested geometry built in. Remember get it done and you can drive it for a year or two and change if you desire...If it was me that front axle might have to go...due to that welded mount for the perch i think it was...

How is the engine mounted at the front?...there is a chance you may need bellhousing area mounts...others may have mentioned...

Interior...I would use as is but if foam or material is crumbling, springs are broken or its moldy or stinks I would look into redoing whats underneath...Upholsterers do it all the time and see how you fit before as you have to feel right in it. Do you remember driving it way back or how did it feel when you pulled it out of the storage?

Headlight bar...either way I'm good dropped or high...But if I went dropped I'd get another dropped bar and tuck the other away...and mod it to fit if needed...easy change back...

I would go out of my way to use every one of those gauges...test if they work and use em...if they don't how much to fix or replace with same...

Brakes...you have hanging pedals already so is there a chrome dual traditional setup that external that looks okay or hide it I would not fault either decision...

Honestly you have to make some changes to safe it up a bit but remember you can always improve as you grow with it...Lets call this your first generation back to business tour...

One way of looking at it is get it all cleaned up and roadworthy in a minimal sense...see how you like it and there may be nothing more to do than smile...

I support your decisions as ultimately its tough to decide...My current ride was already thought out and decisions were made already...

Just get rid of those hideous rollers......Make sure those get the Monty Python Catapault. I hope your running Bias Plys in the end...it won't be back then if you don't......

 

This is Hamber @Jeff Norwell's incredible 32 and he is running I believe a dual master and I would say it looks pretty snazzy on the firewall...what it is maybe he or someone may clarify...is he running hanging pedals.

I think it was said to be a 60 Chevy pickup master...

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/master-cylinder.1002314/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...unted-master-cylinder-plumbing-ideas.1107828/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hemi-powered-1932-ford-deuce-coupe-packs-punch/


Credit to Photographer, Owner

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The Chev truck master is set up for single cylinder for braking and the other cylinder for hydraulic clutch. Doesn't provide dual master braking.

Phil

 

I like the suggestions that the builder is giving you. Sounds like his goal is to get the car back on the road without breaking the bank. If I was to build from scratch, I would not split the rear wishbones but this was often done back in the day and does work. If I had your car, I would leave them split understanding the shortcoming. Takes care of the need for a sway bar.

Regarding the upholstery. I am not an upholstery guy but there is nothing special about naugahyde. I see nauga's running everywhere; replace it if you are replacing the foam and springs. If the upholstery can just be cleaned up and put back in, go with it for now.

Again, listen to your builder. I like to ask questions on the hamb and search the archives but in the end you need to sort out the opinions and suggestions. If you and your builder have a similar vision for the car, put some weight on his suggestion. Will help keep the project focused and completed.

Neal

 

I'll just say ditto to everything Stogy said. Here is a picture of the 32 frame under my 27. This probably isn't ideal but it seems to be working ok. Not shown are what I call torque arms that run from the top of the rear end to the same frame points as the radius arms. Kind of like a triangulated four bar. It looks odd because the arms are ??40s switched side to side and upside down. The frame is fully boxed and has what is left of the original 32 K member. Also not in the picture is a very stout bolt in trans mount. I'm just showing this to point out there's all kind of ways to do things this is what I am trying.

 

Do not toss the original gauges. Either replace with the same if they don't work, or rebuild them if you can't find operational replacements. A new set of "old-style" gauges screams just as loud as those 20" five-spoke wheels your shop put on the chassis in your first pictures. Grandma can't tell the difference, but folks who know can.

I'm on the fence about a dropped headlight bar, but that's an easily unboltable thing that you can change later.

For the chassis I would strengthen/modify the current center member to handle the relocated rear wishbones, which you really should point towards the center of the car. Might be a simple as a new 2" by 2" crossmember across the frame to hold the tabs the wishbones bolt to, or as elaborate as a few tubes and some K or X legs as well. It doesn't have to be a complete "new chassis".

DO NOT put your master cylinder underneath the cowl, hidden behind the dashboard. Whoever told you to do that is a moron. Totally a modern thing, and not traditional at all. And a total headache to work on if anything ever needs to be adjusted or replaced. Can you imagine snaking your head up under the dash to try and fill the master with fluid and make sure you aren't spilling all over your floor and carpet? Leaving a master on the firewall is absolutely traditional for the time period your car was built. And we WILL forgive you if you switch it for a dual master like from a '68 Mustang or somesuch.

 

It is so easy to get caught up in what others say to do. I just went back to page one and looked at the Chassis as it used to be. I don't see anything there that is just plane Wrong. There are things that can be cleaned up or done different but nothing that's Wrong. If it had come here first I would have said let's make it drive and see what you have. If there things that don't work we'll address them one item at a time. A stiff ride is easy to cure. Steering a little less that desirable, we can fix that on it's own. The car would have never come this far apart to make it a pretty dang good driver. I don't see the Brake pedal but a single master is no bid deal to me. Yes you can have a hyd. failure but that's what an Emergency Brake is for, that's Why they call it that. You can change things till the Cow's come home and someone will still say ""You should change that also"".

 

Here is some of your best advice yet;

We really don't Need any dual masters, we've just gotten used to seeing them. It's a Me Too thing.

 

2x on the master hidden under the dash. Think about how easy that will be to service, or to just checking the fluid level. Put it on the firewall with a swing peddle, or under the floor boards like original with juice brakes.

What alchemy said in regard to the gauges. I've read to many non-flattering things about the new gauges available these days.
-Dave

 

Alchemy - can you point me to some photos of '60's - era Model A/'32 roadsters that have the master cylinder mounted to the firewall? I've done a bunch of searches and in most photos the firewall is nice and clean where the master should be. I was assuming the master cylinders were also mounted under the dash or elsewhere. Also, I see alot of '32 hot rods that have what appears to be the master cylinder mounted to the frame under the body with attached brake pedal coming up from below. How are these being filled/topped off? Was this a later mod?

 

A hole in the floorboards and if you want a cover plate over the hole in the floorboard.
1939 to '48 the master cylinder was mounter to the frame under the boards by the factory. Not sure where the M/C is on the '49 Fords, but the moved to the firewall took place by the early 50's.
-Dave

 

Thank you...I wasn't aware...

 

Town Sedan, the Master went to the Firewall in 52 on Ford cars but stayed under the Floors in trucks till 57. My avitar is still under the floor with dual resivore Master with Disc/Drum brakes.

 

Riff, do you have any old magazines for research on these mods you want to do? If you truly want to keep things real, you should read magazines, not what some guys born in the 1970's are telling you. PM me your address and I'll send you some old magazines.

I can guarantee you that nobody put a master cylinder under the cowl until sometime in the 90's. The smoothie movement caused dumb ideas like this.

Henry Ford put master cylinders under the floorboards since his very first one until 1952 like Pist said above. A small plug or door allowed easy access for fluid refills. Nothing to spill in your eyes from above. Still a fine idea today, and easily adapted to the original Ford pedals.

 

No, this wasn't a later mod, this is how it was originally done. The MC is serrviced through the floor board, with a door on the floor for access. With a metal floor they usually have a couple of bolts that hold a plate in place. You lift the carpet/insulation and remove the bolts and the plate to access the MC.

Since your car has swinging pedals and the MC on the firewall I'd leave it like that. It does create a less clean firewall, but it's acceptable for the functionality. As others have said, you could upgrade to a dual reservoir, that's is perfectly acceptable as a safety feature, but there are plenty of cars on the road with a single reservoir and that works fine too, though with a higher risk, a system leak won't be confined to 1 axle.

 

And I agree with this too, except for the split bones attaching to the frame rails. At the very least, if these are retained, I'd beef them up with some additional metal. You really don't want the bones failing at speed, and that does happen.

As an example: