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Featured Hot Rods Model A body on ‘32 chassis WITH FENDERS- Help!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RiffRaffRoadster, Dec 24, 2018.

  1. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 305

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Of course I meant “slotted”! I was just testing you to see if you would pick up on that!


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  2. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 305

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    This is really helpful-thanks.


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  3. dwollam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 651

    dwollam
    Member

    If it was mine I would clean things up and paint the frame then flat black the body and fenders and get it back to running driving condition, then worry about painting it shiny if you think it needs it. This is a car that needs preserved as much as possible, as most everyone has said. I've done pretty much the same with my avatar '29 AV8 sedan that was built in 1958 by a 16 year old sophomore in southern CA.

    I really like your car and its history.

    Dave
     
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  4. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 514

    oliver westlund
    Member

    or you could take it way back and call them "standard"
     
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  5. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 305

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Thanks Dave. We’ve been through quite the ride over the last 2 months. What you’re recommending is pretty much where I am right now. I want to put the car back together and get it driving, then start getting it cleaned up and restored. I’ll try to do as much as I can myself, with help from this site and maybe some local rodders.


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  6. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,483

    thirtytwo
    Member

    I’m going to go against the hamb “traditionalist” on her and say not to preserve much of the chassis ..

    One -
    the O.p. Originally said his dad said it drove like shit and that was a major concern of his also

    Two- basically there isn’t a single crossmember in that car between the front and the back, with split bones... I’m sure it did drive like shit!

    Three- it’s this far down why not correct it ? What point is it just to put back together have it drive shitty and hate it?

    Four -adding structure to the frame putting a proper drop axle in it ,keeping the f-100 box and making things so they work well and he can drive it is not going to hurt it’s historical significance, it makes a useable enjoyable car... kinda the point isn’t it?

    Personally I would not have messed with the body outside of buffing it out, we ain’t there though... we’re here....the frame needs attention
     
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  7. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 305

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Amen!
     
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  8. kidcampbell71
    Joined: Sep 17, 2012
    Posts: 3,683

    kidcampbell71
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. 60s Show Rods

    Do you mind having a Playboy style photo shoot of the frame ? Maybe more Hustler style .... nooks and crannies seen .... lol.

    Gary at Cornhusker Hot Rods builds nice '32 chassis ... @krylon32

    Are you going to the Lone Star Roundup too ? Probably some frame rails or better there, too. Vendors, vendors, vendors ...
     
  9. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 305

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    I’ll be on a damn cruise during Lone Star Roundup. I really wanted to go. I would take more pics of the frame but the body is on it right now. I could unbolt it and take it off this weekend. Thanks.


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  10. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 9,908

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You know @RiffRaffRoadster...I would like to know if you added a robust 32 style x-member in the center of your frame whether boxing is neccessary with a mild small block as you are running...and when boxing came into vogue truly?...I mean if boxing is truly an option why bother...

    Shitty ride would no doubt have been due to many things...not necessarily a non boxed frame...

    Hambers?

    One other thing is perhaps you can farm out the body while you tackle mechanical...the body had been as obvious blasted exposing alot of historical bumps and grinds...

    It's all dough at the end of the day and one advantage you have is you were gifted in a special bond with the Base of this journey...
     
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  11. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 8,833

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo


    Boxed frame isn’t going to change how it rides. Get a good crossmember in it and play ball.

    I’ve seen dozens of honest 300hp chevys in un boxed model A frames and be just fine. I wouldn’t flinch at it in a 32 with proper crossmember
     
  12. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 9,908

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks Tim...that truly decreases workload and downtime...there was mention of the rear end position I believe slightly forward of a preferred location that could be adjusted how?...or is that potentially camera angle?

    Just thinking out loud as we do alot around here Riff...;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  13. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,483

    thirtytwo
    Member

    What’s going on with this car is it has split bones turning the axles into sway bars ( remember the tube axle 4 bar argument?) it transmits the forces into the frame where the wishbone mounts , twisting the frame with suspension movement , none of this is a problem with a torque tube and un split bone from the factory

    The power or weight of the motor isn’t really the argument for boxing.

    I have lots of miles logged in various configurations and I can tell you, putting a x member in like a chassis engineering piece , and boxing just front and back of that makes for a ton of torsional rigidity and a nice compromise of traditional and current technology , it just works well ...

    look at a 1933 frame Henry did it for reason too
     
  14. I agree with THIRTYTWO, my coupe has an X member and is only boxed in front and in back, 388" small block and a 4-speed with no problems at all.
    A stock deuce frame has a K-member, not an X-member.

    Mick
     
  15. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 8,833

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Yup I’d agree.

    Something that your going to start seeing is how everything has to work in concert.

    Keep the split bones set up=> ridged up the chassis

    Keep the un boxed frame=> add cross member, address suspension issues.

    What’s likely to happen? Probably a little bit of both :)
     
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  16. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 305

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    If I decided to try to do some of the work myself, are there diagrams or drawings showing where/how to weld on the crossmembers?


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  17. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 9,908

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There are many builds going on here at many levels of builder expertise and I am in awe at the things being done here...

    So you are eager and no doubt can achieve greatness...and if you need assistance the Hambers will provide assistance...by the wheelbarrow...:confused:...hey those are for Model A firewall mods...:D.

    Personally if I'm not confident in something I will seek outside help...no shame in that either...and I always credit those that did what they did on my ride.
     
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  18. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 8,833

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Every car is so individual that you’ll never find measurements that will be dead on.

    I would find the sort of center cross member you’d like to use and then locate it based on where your current transmission mount is.

    Motor and trans already clear the radiator, firewall and floor so they ain’t movin. Make the new cross member fit that.

    Maybe figure out what you think you want to do and then we’ll point you in a direction to make that work?
     
  19. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 8,833

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    -that being said I’d say my vote for a cross memeber is Pete and Jakes.

    Based purely on where you are in your hot rod education and the ridiculous amount of customer service they offer.

    I would measure from the front of the rear crossmember forward to your trans mount and then call and talk to Jason and tell him “I need one of your cross memebers for a 32 but I need the trans mount to land at this measurement and I need it for an frame that is not boxed.

    At the same time I would order a set of their ladder bars for the rear. Tell them it’s for the same car and they’ll make sure it’ll jives together.

    They make everything from scratch and are extremely accommodating. I live not to far from the shop and am friends with the guys that run it should you feel like you need a hand explaining what your trying to do or if you feel like having some feet on the ground would make you feel more comfortable.
     
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  20. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 9,908

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey @RiffRaffRoadster when you purchase an Hamb Alliance Membership you save money when purchasing from Alliance Vendors...for instance Pete and Jake's might be one...not sure...but just mentioning this...as it may be worth your while and you get some stuff with the membership as well and help out incredible Hamb as well...
     
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  21. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,483

    thirtytwo
    Member

    If your going to put a tube streetrods crossmember in it i see no reason not to just keep on trucking with the whole enchilada and right back to the original question “what pete and Jakes chassis should I buy”

    And to that question the answer is a regular 32 frame for a 32 with fender holes not pinched for a model A

    If the plan is to put everything from petejakes catolog on old frame rails just buy a pete Jakes frame

    My parts list for the current chassis would be

    - original dropped model A axle
    - A front cross
    -40 front bones
    -Lincoln or f-1, f-100 front brakes
    -keep current steering box, rebuild
    -chassis engineering xmember legs with custom center to allow manual trans
    -step box front and back of x
    - c notches
    -40 ford rear cross flattened with 40 spring
    -9” of late 50s era
    - pete Jakes ladder bar or reenforced 36 bones

    As far as buying a welder and taking night classes, that is a great idea... BUT taking on chassis fab as the first major project is a disaster waiting to happen I think

    People learn on different curves but I think after you learn good fitment how to control your welds and laying good beads you are at least a couple years of small projects away from being ready for your frame ,a good hot rod fab guy needs to have a good grasp of mechanical fundamentals, be able to weld decent, have an engineering eye for load, fracture points, ect , and be a good parts guy to understand and seek interchangeably

    Not trying to make a bigger deal than it is... it’s not rocket science ,BUT... I have seen excellent mechanics that are piss poor fabricators, engineers that can make things function beautiful ,but looks horrible, and welders that can lay the prettiest beads you ever saw but either doesn’t function correctly or snaps in two because lack of engineering knowledge

    I’ve seen restoration guys try to build a hotrod and can be a disaster too , they lost when things don’t bolt together!

    A good hot rod person has the difficult challenge of maintaining balance of form function, and history for us traditional guys , the outcome vary greatly , some can do the dance exceptionally well!

    If I won the lotto and looked for people to build what I want... even with no money spared the list is really small of people I feel “get it” and they are scattered all over the country, most arent big names either
     
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  22. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 9,908

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here's where you get a little twisted as in decision making, being you want to drive Now...You are Learning, Lots of Us are saying go authentic using as much of the original and if you do mod keep it real and period...and then there's the keep body and engine and use all repro undercarriage...

    You see you could run modded authentic or original k-member but Tim suggested
    Aftermarket tube due to simplifying ease of install...for you being a beginner in Fab...there is a consideration Tim did say yeah its non trad but you wouldn't know unless you crawled under to see it...Thirty is saying if your going to P&J the original frame it's not traditional any more so go all repro frame and add a mix of New and the Old

    Both are valid options...

    I would use the original frame and add either reproduction period components or original same...and any deviations from your Dads configuration would be period...would I be the guy doing it...probably not...I pay to play...and remember I am faithful to the 65 period...so reproduction parts would be duplicates of a pre 65 part ie brake Drums, Axle, Ladder Bars, Wishbones and are you ready Bia Plys...Yes Bias Plys...I wouldn't have it any other way...;)

    Remember my Hotrod is Inspired and one of the reasons is the tube crossmember...heck maybe tube crossmembers were available in 65 or earlier...dunno

    Tough Decisions Riff
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  23. 52HardTop
    Joined: Jun 21, 2007
    Posts: 742

    52HardTop
    Member

    Hey RiffRaff, do a small project on the car first. Nothing major, just something to give you a little confidence and satisfaction when your finished. I'm telling you, one step at a time and you will be amazed at what you can do. Like has been said here, there are so many that will be happy to help you with your Dads car. I think a lot of the fellows here almost feel they are part of this car in their own little way. Man, I can remember when I first started working on my 52 and thought there was no way I can do what I wanted to do. Well, I did, and you can too...
     
  24. jimgoetz
    Joined: Sep 6, 2013
    Posts: 188

    jimgoetz
    Member

    If you want you can a lot of it yourself.I think any ride and handling For me the rear crosscut ut member is pretty ugly and crude looking. I think you could replace it with a 32 or up but you might have to do some work on the back of the frame.Keep the rear end mounted with a cross spring like you have but Just from pictures it looks like too much spring to me. You can get all kind of advise on link set ups there are a lot of ways that will work. 32 frames never had X members thy had K members see post 186 for this. you could fab up or have someone do it for you. Don't get stuck just going to Hot Rod shops for work or advise there is a lot of frame and body shops that might work with you. When you figure out what way you want to go you could seek out some circle track guys or maybe off road guys. A lot of them do there own fab and welding and could help you.
     
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  25. Another option for frame strengthening: Later Ford X-Member. I think Matt from Irontrap Garage did a video over on the YouTube for one of his projects. You could probably score a bare frame relatively cheap, carefully take out the "X" member and fit to your frame. Just throwwing another option out there.
     
  26. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,483

    thirtytwo
    Member

    Sorry but this is not good advice...

    for starters the k-member in a 32 chassis is almost useless , it works in harmony with a torque tube and A split front bone ,the structure for the rest of frame is borrowed from the body and fenders, once you put open drive and split bones , the bets are off

    Second thing is I have worked on pleanty of cars that race guys, off road guys, muffler guys , tire guys, mini truck guys or even street rod guys have worked on ......usually it’s a mess

    unless they have a love for traditional cars you will only get the style and technique of what they know , even if you tell them exactly what you want .....if jeeps are what they know you will get a finished part that might look more at home on a Jeep and not a 50s hotrod
     
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  27. jimgoetz
    Joined: Sep 6, 2013
    Posts: 188

    jimgoetz
    Member

    Thanks I guess my car doesn't work. I never knew. I didn't say to have a muffler or tire shop build his suspension. If someone could point him right he might be able to have someone that was a competent fabricator and welder make it up for him. Like I said he can get all kind of ideas on suspension set ups and many of them will work. I have a 32 spring on a chevy rear end with split bones and a torque arm. Also a fully boxed frame. But I'm not telling him that's the way to do it. Must be a lot different in my neck of the woods, I've seen a lot of pretty sophisticated race cars with very nice welding.
     
  28. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,483

    thirtytwo
    Member

    That’s not what I said , please re-read my statement, I am also sure somewhere there is a muffler shop somewhere that is extremely competent and probably have done a few outstanding traditional hotrods , but that isn’t the rule

    What I am saying is a guy who builds rockcrawler jeeps is not going to have the same solutions to the problem as a hot rod guy , a traditional car is about ascetics, if your trying to build a good old fashioned hotrod you have to use people that understand it

    Desert kids down here try building hotrods here and they end up looking more like a Baja bug than the graffiti coupe... make sense?
     
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  29. Here is a link to the video I mentioned if you're interested.
     
  30. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 305

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Thanks for all the great tech advice guys. I have some news - Keith Tardell with Rex Rod & Chassis contacted me today and has some possible historical info on my car! Even though he’s not building my car, he was nice enough to make some calls and he has some leads on previous owners and original source cars from way back. Very impressed with him doing this when he didn’t have to. Hope to have more info next week.


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