Marching to a Banger beat - The March 2014 Banger Meet

the clutch looks like a standard model a to me
the early ones have a way different flywheel than that
tk

Yes found it to have the more common one that I am happy about, starting to think it might be a later 28 now.
I know for sure the crank is the 28 early style as it has the diamond shape to the throws.
Today talked to the local specialist on side valves, he is preparing a quote for me and have me advice on the motor pull down.

 

Looks like a Willys "F" head engine that was made for years. Worked on some of them while i was in the Army in '61 - '61. They were pretty old then.

 

^^^ Thanks for the I.D.

 

Running a stock carb, intake, and cam is probably not the best thing to do.

Might be very frustrating and expensive if you ruin the bottom end because of it.

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While you are waiting to gather all of the parts you should, if you haven't already done so. adjust the rods and mains.

 

You can say that again bill---good advice

 

Any Banger Brothers going to Detroit this weekend?


WACCUSTOMS.COM
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thanks guys. I have the bottom end adjusted and seems to be in good shape now. At a minimum, what parts would i need to compliment the head upgrade?

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More carb.

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With that compression, if you want to run it much above 3000 rpm; to save breaking a crank, you should put a harmonic damper on the nose of the crank.

 

Yup! Rick ran that car up at the Monterey Historics, a number of years ago. He had some pretty hairy transmission problems; and didn't get much time in it. Rick, having run his Bugatti and Alfa Romeo, in recent years at Monterey; hasn't brought the Winfield car back. It can be seen on the video: "Where They Raced", produced by Harry Pallenberg and Harold Osmer. It really sounds "bitch'n". Though I'm in touch with Rick, on a week to week basis; I don't know what he's bringing to run in the PreWar class at Monterey this year.

Art Sparks sold his 2 up/2 down engine to a fella in Glendale CA, who at last known (in the 70's or 80's) ran it in his street roadster. Sparks replaced the Ford T engine, with the second Miller 4-banger (come Offenhauser/Meyer Drake), that Harry Miller produced.

 

Richie R, Who was the local specialist? Might have to look them up.

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Does anyone know where I can get one for the model a? or maybe a picture of the install? I have heard of specialty ford parts in California making one. Are they still around? I'm not planning on beating on this engine too much, but I sure dont want any catastrophic damage. Is 7:1 compression too much?

 

There are pictures of the one I made in the March 2013 meet thread. Starting at post # 127.

Link:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=781649&page=7


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CDO, Have you checked on the stock chassis clearances for the damper install? How did the damper do on your engine?

I want to piece my banger together just once. I don't have the expendable income to do it twice! (Not that any of you do either, just that I can spend "second round" money better in other places!) So, if the balancer helps out (and it fits), I'll run one, too!

 

I haven't checked fit yet. We are going to make one for Pop's '31 PU. He has done some preliminary measurements. He thinks it will fit but we may have to trim the flange of the crossmember.

As far as how it works, all I can say is I haven't broke the new engine yet. But it only has @1000 miles on it so far.


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The clearance is a tight fit, I used a two-piece copy of a Winfield Damper, manufactured by Specialty Ford Parts in Rosemead, CA. They only made a few. Their number is 626-288-2121. Some guys have adapted Small Block Chevy Dampers to Model As, more in Speedsters, not sure if they used the stock location with the Model A Cross Member.

 

There is a vintage engine specialist over in Dookie near Shepparton, amasing workshop with all sorts of old engines around, big stationary, pumps and many sidevalve engines of all discriptions
Cannot find his business card ATM.

 

Egge engineering? That's who I was referring to in the pm I sent you.

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Taylor Engine, formerly of Whittier CA, now of Santa Fe Springs CA, made mine.

7:1 Compression isn't too much; but the rest of the engine, particularly the bottom end, has to be good. You bolt on one thing; and it changes a bunch of others. A balanced (counterweighted, as well), magnifluxed crank is good. Real good is one ground out of billet. Best is a five main girdle; or a Donovan , or Terry Burtz 5 main block. I've blown up two Model B's (cranks, blocks and rods); all with weak lower ends. I got serious: a billet, 5 main crank! I run 13:1 and change; and burn 100 to 110 Octane race gas. This engine has run 6 seasons, with just a broken rocker arm and subsequent bent valve. Power and speed cost money. Catastrophic failures cost REAL MONEY! I still think I hold the claim that, when I was a teenager; that I built the best "Hand Grenades" in the San Gabriel (CA)Valley. I knew nothing of structural rigidity of blocks, or the weakness of three main bearings.

The current engine in my race car could very well run on the streets (but for the lousey pump gas)
There's no halfway of doing it! I know the refrain: "All I want to do is put a little more guts in my motor!"

 

That's them
Everyone I talked to about engine rebuilding referred me to them.

 

Here is mine it is 3/16 smaller diameter than the stock A model pulley and the belt runs in the 33/34 location

 

Better photo

 

Is yours from Specialty Ford Parts in California?
What's the approximative outer diameter? I have a T engine & the available space is very limited since the oil pan extends forwards and forms the front engine mount. Are there any crank dampeners on any engine with really small outer diameter that might be possible to modify?

I would guess torsional harmonic oscillations is the major cause for the many metal fatigue breaks in Model T cranks, so if a harmonic dampener is at all possible to be designed and fitted to a T, then it could save lots of cranks.

 

No it not a Winfield vibe dampener tried that could not keep together ????
Outer Diameter is 5 inch
bore is 15/16

 

Rolls-Royce engines in the teens (?) and twenties used a dampener which consisted of a disk, which looked like a clutch disk, with lining on either side, fastened to the nose of the crank. This was encased by two cast iron plates bolted together around the rim, with springs under the heads to put pressure on the disk. The disc "ran" in a large shallow cavities cut into the plate surface.

Years of use would wear the friction surfaces, and the faces that they engaged, to the point that the plates would continue spinning when the crank stopped. Also, under long time neglected storage, rain or dampness would get into the crack between the plates and rust everything up solid.

A local Rolls enthusiast over the course of time brought me 3 or 4 of the plate sets to recut the friction surface and take a like amount off the face of the rim.

I asked him how he knew that he had the right amount of pressure when tightening the screws around the rim. The told me that he tightened in small increments, until the engine felt smoother when pulling hard. This was with a six cylinder, with a crank that I'm sure was more like a Ford T than the A & B's that we are concerned with, in regards to torsional stiffness.

A piece like this wouldn't be hard to make, but the key, I think , is to get the most amount of mass on the largest circle possible--not entirely compatible with the A front X member.

Just a thought- as with the SBC dampener, you are getting a unit,where rubber absorbs the crank wind-up--but engineered for a much more torsionally stiff crank than a banger. Better than nothing? Probably, but certainly not the optimum.

Herb

 

Could you let know where it was purchased? Or was it adapted from another damper?

Thanks

 

Curious to know if a dampener would make that much difference on a B engine or an A with a counterweight crank.

 

Thanks Herb for the description of the RR solution - an antique technique that might be possible to recreate with low tech tools, can't be any better

 

They both break (somewhere near the rear main), with little or no deference to whether, or not counterweights are present. It's a matter of harmonics. It mostly occurs, anywhere betwween the high twenties of RPM, to 4000