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Low buck, home built dual plane HEMI intake

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kustombuilder, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. kustombuilder
    Joined: Sep 18, 2002
    Posts: 7,745

    kustombuilder
    Member
    from Novi, MI

    my good buddy, Dan Turner, is building a rad little Tupperware 32 3 window. he had it running (but not quite "done) with full fenders and a SBC and auto trans. but then he scored a nice running 331 HEMI from our buddy Dave "Bubbles" Shuten. after that the fenders came off, the SBC and auto trans came out and in went the HEMI and a 4 speed.

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    while the HEMI is an impressive looking motor all on it's own the factory single two barrel carb leaves you feeling a little cheated. that is what Dan thought anyways and thus he began his search for a multi carb intake. he was realy thinking tri-power but was open to goin the 2x2 route as well.
    after placing bids on a couple Ebay finds and then seeing them bid up over what he was willing to spend (way too close to the 1000 dollar mark for comfort in most cases) he decided to go a different route.
    you see, Dan has been building hot rods for damn near half a century now. he has always been the DO IT YOURSELF kinda guy and does not subscribe to the "i spent more money on my car than you did" school of thought. from the first time i met this guy i have been impressed time and time again with his truly out of the box thinking and out of the ordinary ways of solving problems.
    so, what does a guy like this do when he wants a part but is'nt comfortable parting with the green it will take to buy said part? you got it, he BUILDS it!

    Dan started with a length of 3/8 x 3" steel bar stock. then he traced all the holes through a HEMI intake gasket. once all the holes were laid out he drilled the bolt holes on the drill press but he also drilled out each corner of the intake ports. next he took a sawzall and played connect the dots untill he had intake ports in his new flanges. you could also (and much more quickly) blow these out with a plasma cutter if you have a unit large enough to do the job (afterall, there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say.).


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    next Dan figured out the angle of the carb mounting surface on the factory intake in relation to the engine itself, in this case 3*. He then set up some tubing and other misc. scraps of steel, with clamps, in front and back so that his plenum would be at 3*. his plenum tubes are made from 2" thin wall square tube and were clamped to the temporary base he had setup. as you can see he has them set up with one plenum up high and one down low, quite similar to how a regular cast dual plane intake is set up.

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    from there he was able to start figuring out his runner tubes, which he made from 1.5" thin wall square tube. Dan played around with small pieces of cardboard cutting them to different angles and holding them in place between the plenum tubes and the flanges that were bolted to the heads. once he had his angles figured out he would transfer those to the 1.5" tubes and started tacking them in place once he had them cut out. (disregard the copper plumbing. that was just Dan "thinking out loud".)

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    Davey came through again with this trio of Stromberg WW carbs left over from his Mysterion build a couple years back.

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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
  2. dirtbag13
    Joined: Jun 16, 2008
    Posts: 2,540

    dirtbag13
    Member

    very nice fab work !
     
  3. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,614

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    Thats what its all about...making stuff in the garage.........Littleman
     
  4. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    OK, I am dumb (seriously), but why is this design good? Seems like it would not be balanced well, but as mentioned, I don't know. Nice fab work though and seems well thought out and made.

    How did you cut out those flanges? They seem monster thick.

    Nice valley cover by the way. I got one of those for mine too and it is a great piece. Steve made a hell of nice piece with that.
     
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  5. kustombuilder
    Joined: Sep 18, 2002
    Posts: 7,745

    kustombuilder
    Member
    from Novi, MI

    at some point during all this madness Dan figured out how high he wanted his carbs to sit off the manifold and cut lengths of thin wall round tube to equal that height. he tacked those in place and then was able to build the flanges that the carbs would mount to. these were made from 3/8 x 4" flat stock cut to the appropriate lengths. they were then tapped for threads in a pattern matching the carb base. then, using a hole saw, he cut the throttle ports into the carb flanges. the holes were cut so that their ID would match that of the OD of the round tubing for a snug fit that will later be welded to the flange from the inside (top) for a leak free connection.

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    to ensure that the mounting surface of the carb flange was true he "surfaced" it on his belt sander that is backed with a flat plate. he had done the same with the gasket side of the intake flanges earlier as well. (again, there is more than one way to skin this cat too. you may have access to a mill, surface grinder or other machine tool or maybe you have a large disc sander you can use for this step.)
    as always, be very careful when doing this stuff. you can see the heavy leather gloves Dan is wearing and i'm sure you can imagine how easily that part could go flying and your knuckles could end up at the business side of that rapidly moving abrasive belt. there is likely a safer way to do this but i think you get the idea.

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    once all of the parts were made and test fit together the whole mess came apart so that all the holes could be cut into the plenum. it was then all tacked back together and checked for fit once again. all accept for the carb flanges...

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    you may have noticed before that even when it is all tacked together (before the carb flanges go on) that the upper and lower plenums come off the intake flanges independent of each other. this is VERY important as you will need to get into some tight places to fully weld this thing together. this is one of those times when it is absolutely crucial that you think the entire project through from front to back and top to bottom. otherwise you could end up welding yourself into a corner. by this i mean if you do not weld everything together in the correct order there may be areas that you can not get to to weld, and that would be VERY bad. you can not have any leaks in your intake or that will lead to vacuum leaks and you will most certainly be sucking air from places other than the top of your carb.

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    one part that i did'nt mention yet is the water jacket inlets. Dan has brainstormed several ideas for the water crossover (you saw the copper plumbing) but i think i've got him convinced to go with the method Paul used in his recent tech thread were he welded a water cross over together using mostly pieces of black pipe. the difference in this case is that instead of the water crossover being independent of the intake, as it is with some engines, this one can be welded directly and permanently to the intake flanges.
    you can also see here that the intake flange was tapped for the temp. gauge fitting on the left and the heater hose fitting on the right above the rear water jackets in the heads.

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    Dan is currently at the point of doing all the finish welding, after which he will dress all the welds. when he is finished with that he will block off the carb flanges using carb gaskets and a block off plate. the same will be done on the intake flanges and then a quick disconnect air fitting will be threaded into one of the block off plates. the intake will be pressurized (50psi should be enough) and soapy water will be used at ALL of the seams to check for any leaks. if any are found they will be rewelded, dressed and retested until the intake is leak free.

    i will continue to update this thread untill it is finished. Dan is a steady worker so it will only take him two or three more evenings to get this done. he may not have the water crossover portion done when this tech month ends on the 15th but the rest of the intake will, essentially, be finished.

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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
  6. kustombuilder
    Joined: Sep 18, 2002
    Posts: 7,745

    kustombuilder
    Member
    from Novi, MI


    it's just like any other dual plane intake. look inside an Edelbrock Performer RPM for SBC for example. the dual plane design keeps each side isolated so that the intake pull from a cylinder on one side of the intake will not pull fuel away from a cylinder on the other side of the motor... or at least that is the way i understand it... this is'nt something Dan invented. it's been done on most factory and many aftermarket intakes since forever.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
  7. this is a badass tech here. im seriously impressed.
     
  8. bikersteve
    Joined: Oct 19, 2008
    Posts: 155

    bikersteve
    Member

    Very Cool! Nice work
    Not my area of knowledge, but should there be a consideration of the volume of the plenums? and runner length? Just thinking out loud....
     
  9. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    That makes sense, but aren't most of those types of manifolds cast and the differences in height are quite a bit less and more squat, curved and flowing? Seems a bit odd to me with the extreme height differences and hard edges and 90 degree turns. Honestly, not trying to be a nay sayer and just asking cause I don't know and willing to learn something if I can. It does look cool, I have to say. And I do appreciate the hand fabbed nature of it.
     
  10. kustombuilder
    Joined: Sep 18, 2002
    Posts: 7,745

    kustombuilder
    Member
    from Novi, MI



    i honestly do not know. we are not engineers but if those U-Fab log intakes worked at all i'm certain this one will work even better. i'm sure it is not the most efficient, cutting edge design but that was'nt the point.
     
  11. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. Worst that can happen is he ends up with a cool intake that doesn't run any better that the stock one and maybe even not quite as quite as well. But, certainly wouldn't be the first time for that either. I say finish it up and see how it does. Thanks for posting and let us know how it goes.
     
  12. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,210

    bobbytnm
    Member

    Wow!!!

    Truly amazing. I am deeply impressed. This is what hot roddin is all about

    Thanks for sharing the write up and the pics. I'm anxiously awaiting the finished project.

    Bobby
     
  13. jj mack
    Joined: Mar 22, 2007
    Posts: 735

    jj mack
    Member

    I appreciate the work and effort...but balanced airflow is a science. You might can get away with it on a u-fab-it type intake with a common plenum, but throw a dual plane...with square tubing, and different runner lengths and sharp turns????

    Look at these guys and youll see what I am comparing it to.
    http://www.hogansracingmanifolds.com/index.aspx

    I hope I am wrong and will be watching for an update after he runs it and checks the plugs.
     
  14. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,614

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    Bottom line for me....''You do not know unless you try.'' .......Littleman
     
  15. Thats wicked man, im looking to build a blower manifold in the same fashion pretty soon....
     
  16. jj mack
    Joined: Mar 22, 2007
    Posts: 735

    jj mack
    Member

    One more thing...

    Before he final welds it. make sure that the block and head work is done. And that he puts on the gaskets and bolts down the heads... so everything will line up on final assembly.

    I learned that the hard way once.................
     
  17. jj mack
    Joined: Mar 22, 2007
    Posts: 735

    jj mack
    Member

    I agree. And want to learn from this. I often over think things!

     
  18. tigerShark
    Joined: Oct 18, 2006
    Posts: 210

    tigerShark
    Member
    from Tampa Bay

    most of those manifolds are close to $4000. not much of a comparison.

    it would have been nice to see him make the same manifold using round tubing though.
     
  19. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,490

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Uuuum, excuse me everyone... Reality check here.
    The guy wanted a 3X2 intake for his 60 year old engine so he could putt around on nice weekends, and he wanted it for under $1000.00.... Nobody ever said he was going for a world speed record, so I cant understand why everyone is knocking him about how much HP his manifold may, or may not make... Or comparing his home made creation to top of the line $5000 laser cut racing manifolds.

    I say, nice manifold and congrats on having the balls to tackle such a project. It looks good, and I hope it performs well for you.
     
  20. Fuckina
     
  21. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member

    My thoughts exactly, why do alot of people think their engines are performing at 100 % VE and bitch and moan about how inefficient other peoples combos are.
     
  22. Ditto!!!!!

    besides, when somebody asks about your intake, and they will because its bitchen , he'll be able to tell them he did it.

    I have seen more than one 2 barrel manifold that people have modified just to bolt 2 more dead carbs on just to have the look of three?? why bother with that??

    I'll be looking for the up dates!!!
     
  23. This is sure one hell of a wild intake. How do you plan on finishing it off? Paint? Chrome? A trip to the chrome shop would make it just as high dollar as vintage casting(maybe more), but it sure would look cool!
     
  24. stealthcruiser
    Joined: Dec 24, 2002
    Posts: 3,719

    stealthcruiser
    Member

    Damn nice!!!!!!!!

    It'll fly......
     
  25. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,490

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Powder coating in a faux chrome finish would run about ~$60
     
  26. I have my single plane m-1 powder coated and love it. It has the look of polished aluminum,but is low maintenance. On the other hand, I some how think it would not do this intake justice. Its a just shame chrome plating is so damn expensive.
     
  27. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    I am not busting the guy's chops, as I said, I am try to learn something.

    But besides a few less hp, there is bad puddling, uneven flow to make an engine run rough and poorly, poor throttle response, you know all that other stuff intakes can do or not do well that can be pretty damn annoying.

    It does look cool and I certainly hope it works out and runs great. I still think it is worth the effort and try regardless. You can learn just as much if not more from "failures", than successes. I am just trying to learn something myself.
     
  28. Dyce51
    Joined: Aug 17, 2007
    Posts: 274

    Dyce51
    Member
    from Ohio

    nicely done!! See you don't need a million dollar machine shop to get the job done! Clean looking, custom designed, one of a kind, functional and fairly CHEAP! Great tech!!!!
     
  29. strombergs97
    Joined: May 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,888

    strombergs97
    Member
    from California

    Hello..I really appreciate creativity. Very nice, different, cool..Let us know how it performs..
    Here is a picture of one. down the center of the plenum is a divider, that is shaped like a long V, it's angle iron..
    Duane.
     

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  30. If it was all about efficiency and performance then we wouldn't waste our time with this old stuff. We'd be driving a track spec Lotus Exige.
     

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