I've been tossing this idea around in my head a bit lately ever since I saw one of my all time favorite TROG cars that had a solid mounted rear end. With the idea of trying to have the best of both worlds (tall order, I know), I'm wondering if a simple locking system would be a way to run a car with a rear suspension like a car with a solid mount rear. Since I've got my rear end slung out back, it seems like it would be a relatively simple task to add brackets to the rear end and the frame then make a set of rods to span them and lock the rear end in place when a rigid suspension is desired. Thoughts?
It could be done, the rods would need to be substantial enough to not get bent. We used to do that on motorcycles back in the '60s and '70s. That was when hard tail frames were cool and if you had a swing arm bike and wanted to be one of the cool guys struts were a cheap option. here's an example, the rear shock is no longer there.
In the soft sand of a beach, a solid rear end is possible At the dry lakes we see solid rears But it is at Bonneville the solid rear is noticeable, a little more solid and a little more traction., And they will beat you to death at the start and down the course. You can hear powerful vehicles with solid rear ends, they have whoop, whoop whoop sound as the motor and rear end fight to find traction and stability.
YEah, that's kinda along the lines of what I had in mind, but something a little easier to access and engage/disengage. Why do you think it's not worth trying? I was thinking of putting the brackets off the rear crossmember at the frame intersection and then down to the bells. 1.5 x 2 x 0.120" box tube came to mind as a starting point for the rods.
It sort of depends on what you are using for tires. Note the fat tires on the bike. We used to run a fat tire on the rear a little low on air pressure. The tire becomes your spring. I did a late model ('70s) MOPAR with pieces of drive shaft once. The spring perches were completely rusted out, I had a drive shaft, a torch and the people had no cash. The were headed for Michigan from gawd knows where. Welded the drive shaft pieces to the axle tubes and the most substantial sub frame of the old rust bucket, filled their tank with gas and sent them on their way. They were still driving that heap a year later from what I was told. But it is not high on my list of things to brag about. I would think that 12 or 10 gauge (10 gauge =.125) would hold a light enough car if you didn't hammer it too hard and it wasn't very long. remember the longer it is the more flex you are going to get.
Ok, thanks. Yeah, the idea is to be able to put this setup on for the sake of running on sand and dirt. I haven't looked into doing land speed at this point. I'm not sure I've built this car to legal spec for it (But I may be able to; I know I at least need a cowl hoop). I'm planning on running 32" Super Traxions on 16" wheels like what I have on for mockup currently. I've been building this car with the idea of doing sand and dirt races, both drag and circle, primarily. I'll get a set of street shoes for it eventually though. The tires on here just kind of came to me and fit the idea. Another idea that had occurred to me as a compromise between a locked up suspension and the normal suspension would be to use leaf springs instead of a rigid rod, to stiffen the suspension rather than lock it entirely. Here's the rear of my car for reference:
I think that you'll find if you ever want to run on the salt that your safety equipment will cost you as much as your car cost or close to it. LOL I have actually raced off road and spent a lot of time mudding and on really rough terrain and you would actually be better off with a good set of shocks. They will be difficult to hide but you could throw them on just to race I suppose. What you want is for your tires to follow the terrain and stay planted a good set of shocks to control your spring action will work way better for that then rigid suspension. Just an observation not shooting down your idea.
Beano,at our age hard tails are for hard heads!I logged thousands of miles on a ridged frame panhead,probably why my back is so screwed up. I see the no suspension in basically the same light,if it is intended for strictly racing maybe,but real world driving on the street screams rat rod to me. HRP
Hah, yeah, I kinda figured that! I think the most this car could do on its best day would be somewhere between 115 and south of 130 depending on gears and IF this engine can spin up to 5000 and maintain it, which, even with the center main brace, I'm not so sure of. But that would be REALLY FAST in my little tin can. I like the shock Idea too and I see what you're saying. Really, this is such a simple idea, there's no reason I can't try all three options out since, as far as the car itself is concerned, it's just 4 brackets, so all I would need to do is have correctly sized shocks, leaves, and bars.
Agreed, that's why the idea is to be able to lock (or stiffen) the suspension for race days, on the fly, and unlock it when the runs are done by unbolting 4 fasteners and tossing a couple rods/springs/shocks in the trunk.
You and me both. Hell when I was a kid the older guys used to tell me that I needed springs but I had what I had and way too many miles using my spine as a shock absorber. Hell the flat trackers always had springs. Well except for the one time I rode a WR in a vintage race. Irun springs on both ends today, I don't try to hit the potholes still but when I do it doesn't make me see stars. You can use the same mounts for your shocks. I would buy them upfront so that I would not have to make new brackets. I think you'll go with a sprung buggy eventually. You can try it both ways if you want.. yea but like I said you can try it both ways. LOL .
I never did understand that at all. Hardtail framed bikes look fantastic, but beat you up, the price of owning it. A swing arm frame with struts not only looks nothing like a hard tail it beats you up the same with not looking cool
That's really the idea. This would be an additional bracket setup, not the primary setup. I intend to set the car up as normally it is, buggy spring and shocks, etc. for all around use. What I'd do with this idea is add a pair of brackets to the frame and to the tubes to take a set of rods, springs, additional shocks, or a combination depending on how those elements influence the handling and hookup on a particular terrain.
Arlen won lots of shows and made a lot of money off those strutted bikes back then. He actually had a pearl white bike with a more normal tank and a glide front end that I took bar hopping a time or two. I liked it real well for slinging around in town. The hard tail frames had a lot to do with cool, and proving yourself. Kick start only of course. ever try to kick a big inch mag fired pan? I weighed all of 145 on a good day and have always had gimpy legs. I was still pretty young when the old guys began telling me I had nothing to prove. They were suggesting a bike just like the one I ride today, and some other stuff about proving myself that I would probably best keep among friends. ( you would fall into those ranks ) Oh to be young and dumb and full . . . again so that I could freakin pay attention. I got an old racin buddy that calls that pioneering or trailblazing depending on what day it is. you try it and then you say, well that didn't work as well as planned. Something else to think about is that smooth tires work better in the sand unless you can turn lots of Rs and have lots of grunt. floating is better then digging sometimes.
Arlen Ness? Well, at this moment, maybe it might appear like I'm pioneering or trailblazing, but it's really such a simple idea that I can't imagine somebody didn't try it on their rod at some point, particularly cars that went to work and grocery shopping during the week.
Yea. Arlen Ness. lots of things got done to race on the weekends with the old drivin it around car. i don't doubt that someone has tried it.
I was just using the salt as an example of surface,,, For Bonneville,,,, It's not ust the $4000 cage Or the $1000 fire system Or the $2000 tires Or the $1000 HANS device Or the $1000 Fire Suit It's the 10 lbs of the above into the 5 lb vehicle
Solid suspension might work on straight line racing, but if the racing involves turning at speed, having fully functioning suspension at both ends works much better. I don't do straight line racing, but I don't see how locking the suspension would make the tires hook up better, except maybe on sand or very soft dirt. It sure would make the ride a lot rougher though. Gene
That's exactly what the idea is centered around: Making it a removable setup that can be added specifically for straight line off road racing.
My last comment on rigid frames,Beano do you remember running low air pressure in the rear tire to soften the blows of the ride but hit a pot hole and that jar to the spine & tail bone hurt so bad that a excruciating sound of agony could be heard by anyone ridding with near by...UGHUFF ! HRP
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