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Technical Lets build a 327 to make 400hp

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Billy Bibbit, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. Jeremy Jalopies
    Joined: Jul 28, 2014
    Posts: 142

    Jeremy Jalopies
    Member

    I'm not sure if my aspirations are unrealistic and pardon me for not having a ton of engine knowledge but this is what Ive got to work with. When I picked up my '30 coupe(local hotrod built in the 50s and hasn't been touched since '66) it came with a 327 from the 3rd owner who didnt use it. After doing some research on the block numbers: 3892657 (1967 Camaro) and the heads are 3973487 (1971 Corvette) The motor also came with a Man-a-Fre intake manifold and Rochester 2G carbs(4) I also have a turbo 350 trans and a 1957 Olds rear end. Im not apposed to running a manual trans but Im trying to stay as budget conscious as possible, so using what I have would be rad but Im open to suggestions(hence the post).

    Question is where to go from here? Id like to run and Isky cam just cause. Im sure there are better cams out there but again I could be wrong. The point of the car is to be reliable / streetable and somewhat fast hotrod. Probly wont see much time on the strip. Feel free to school me while I continue to do more research. I appreciate your time.
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,805

    squirrel
    Member

    Don't worry about the HP number, most guys just make them up anyways. sounds like the makings of a neat engine, and you probably do want to put a 4 speed behind it. TH350 is lame behind a setup like that.
     
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  3. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,691

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think it can be done. I have a large journal 327 .040 over with L2166nf dome pistons,steel crank GM cast Camel humps withjust a little clean up , 234°/244° @.050 cam, off the shelf Performer RPM intake and 600cfm Carb . The distributor is a Mallory Unilite . I have tubular headers. I didn´t have on the dyno but I dragraced a friend in an OT E46 M3 with 343 HP. I won by about three car lenghts in a 1/4 mile, maybe a 1/2 mile since we did it on the open road. I M3 was stock, I know , cause it was mine.I still don´t know what number the 327 is putting out, but I´d say at least around 330-340 HP. It really like to rev to 7Gs and is very throttle responsive. The rearend is a 3.08, so that´s not too good for drag racing, but the M§ is also geared for top speed...At that tim, my 56 did have radials, but I personally like the bias plys better... Keep us updated on your build! I dig 327s and old 283s!
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5998zzttv1Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     

    Attached Files:

  4. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,792

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Wasn't there a Hot Rod magazine article about doing that? Late 60's, I think.
     
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  5. blackout78666
    Joined: Jul 3, 2009
    Posts: 583

    blackout78666
    Member

    I don't know how much horsepower it out out but I used to run a small journal 327 in a stock car class where the cubic inch limit was 355. Stuck with a cast iron intake and 4412 2 barrel carb ( and a few "other" things)but that thing would wind up and run. Run up to 6500 down the straightaways real quick. I would have loved to been able to let it breathe and wouldn't have been surprised if it made 300-350 hp with a 4bbl and headers.
     
  6. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,640

    thirtytwo
    Member

    I'd rather run a Saginaw 3 Spd than the th350 ... Those are free to cheap .. When you find a 4spd , it will fit similiar
     
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  7. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,551

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    With talk of having to have an Isky cam, it sounds like (part of) your motivation is having some bragging rights while bench racing with the guys. Not a thing wrong with that, a lot of us have been there, it's just part of a hot rodders DNA.
    I know people are probably tired of hearing me go on about the L79 327, but I think most of those that know their Chevy history will agree that it's pretty hard to beat the combination, especially as Jim says, it really needs a 4 speed (or any manual trans).
    These engines had pretty mild camshafts by todays standards, but they did have 11 to 1 compression and good breathing heads which is where their reputation came from.
    I know you have a figure in mind but achieving big hp numbers out of smaller cube motors is not as easy as the magazines make it sound. Throttle response and torque are actually more desirable when planning a street engine build. The 350 horse 327 (L79) has quite a history in lightweight cars (like yours) and they can be made to make more hp than the factory rating without too much trouble. Not saying you need to duplicate the combination that GM used, you just need to keep the parts combination in sync with the environment their expected to operate in. Rearend gear and transmission choices will also dictate how street friendly(any) engine ultimately ends up.

     
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  8. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 25,998

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    had a '65 Nova that I found a motor for, in a weekly throw away ad paper that came in the mail. it was a fresh built '65 327 blueprinted to factory 365HP specs by a top name shop
     
  9. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,030

    pitman

    Believe the 327 small journal motor w/FI was 'rated' at 365(?)
    I ran the 340 HP GM cam in one and it worked well.
    Jalopy beat me!
     
  10. Jeremy Jalopies
    Joined: Jul 28, 2014
    Posts: 142

    Jeremy Jalopies
    Member

    I appreciate the posts in the small amount of time since I posted. again, not apposed to going manual trans at all. My truck ('56 Willys) has a 355 with a mild cam and 4brl carb and a th350 and its pretty alright but I want this car to be faster just cause. Honestly, HP numbers dont really matter at the end of the day. Im thinking Isky cam to keep it kinda era correct.
     
  11. wedjim
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 420

    wedjim
    Member
    from Kissimmee

    It can easily be done, but street ability will suffer. A manual trans or loose convertor if you run an automatic trans, will be required.
    An honest 1hp per cube will have you feeling plenty of power and lacking traction, making it a ton of fun, without the drivability issues the other 75 hp will bring.
    If you really want the 400 honest hp, look at cylinder head porting, good valves, better rods, balancing, good valves and springs to match a good solid lifter cam, like Iskys 201549. About 290 ad duration and .550 lift, on a split pattern favoring the exhaust. 650 double pumper and good headers.

    That last 75 hp is expensive in an early design small cube motor.
     
  12. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,551

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    The fuelie motor was rated at 375 hp, same engine, just with a Holley carb.
    BTW, the L79 had the same basic parts other than the hydraulic camshaft and different carb number.
     
  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,805

    squirrel
    Member

    You can make really good power with modern heads....but they would ruin what you're trying to do.

    one thing I love about my Chevy II is that I've been in the nines with it a couple times, with old old snowflake heads
     
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  14. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    One of the most debased subject on the WWW, performance of a SBC and how to get what you want.

    No news, and nothing wrong with the question.
    Everybody got an opinion and this is mine,
    It doesn't matter how many HP you make, it's simply a matter of the respect you get for the HP and money you got/spend!!

    And here on the HAMB you get more respect for a 327, double hump or Power pack heads, ram horns and 3 or more carbs, and no motor mounts on the side of the block.

    The rest of the world would ask what you got under the hood, and wouldn't give a d@mn about if it's a 283, 301 or 327.
    They care only for horse power!

    But there are some exceptions to the rule, like @squirrel and his Chevy 2 AWB, I bet he get as much respect on Hot Rod Power tour as he did on here before he raced it.

    But back to your question, a Duntov 3030 or a Isky cam will get you a long way (in the respect camp), and so will the man-A-fre intake. Do you have the carbs or just the intake?
    But the a good and stout non aggressive 327 with a nice intake, some loud pipes and a four speed in a light care will make it fast, fun and cheap.

    So go for it!

    And where are the d@mn pics?
    Pics are important, both car, intake, and assorted parts!!
    What's in the car now? Intake, transmission, rearend, tires and what era are you going for?
     
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  15. Dude! Running a man-a-fre intake with 2gc's on it is like 400 visual horsepower alone! Add some slick finned vette covers and your pushing 450 visual horsepower.
     
  16. Jeremy Jalopies
    Joined: Jul 28, 2014
    Posts: 142

    Jeremy Jalopies
    Member

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1461541980.419680.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1461541999.434047.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1461542015.714045.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1461542027.459107.jpg

    I have the intake and the carbs(which need rebuilt. I have these cal custom valve covers and some older offy breathers to install on them and Gear Drive headers. This is the car. Again, built in the 50s, last on the road in '66 and sat in storage and I bought it in December. It will be a very Hilton Hotrods-esque build but the motor is up for planning.
     
  17. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    That's 350 HP in visuals. Lumpy cam will get you the rest. I'm talking perceived HP mind you. Build a nitrous motor if you really want 400+ HP. But if you want "motor cred" then you've got the right building blocks already.

    So I think you're good, unless you really want to run it on a track or race it.
     
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  18. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 514

    AmishMike
    Member

    I would not worry about 400HP. With those headers & that intake/carb setup it will sure look like 400+. Do A good home port session, match post to intake & exhaust. Decent compression to match local gas (gasohol? ). Pay for good valve job, good springs (beehive popular) - ask Isky for advice on whole combination. Be sure pushrods right length, could always spend money on roller rockers. Some hidden stuff not HAMB friendly - like hydraulic roller cam $. Solids impress but pain in butt to adjust. If cash is hard, keep auto & think future shift kit. Call torque converter company with total specs, include cam & engine, total weight & gearing - see what they suggest. Stick sounds great but everyone forgets pedal, clutch & probably new drive shaft. Costs add up fast. If you beat on stick parts cost will go up, Winters told me not a rear for drag starts. Build to suit intended use of rod - street, long distance or drags.
     
  19. Katuna
    Joined: Feb 25, 2005
    Posts: 1,812

    Katuna
    Member
    from Clovis,Ca.

    I'll be watching this intently as it's nearly the exact setup that I'm putting together for my Comet, except I'm going to run an Offy 4 pot with 3 bolt carbs and a Muncie.

    I know the Man-a-Fre and the Offy are similar in that they don't have equalizing tubes and are paired to each carb. This makes for troublesome street driving. Is there a way to tame that, such as you would adding an equalizing tube between the carb bases on a cross ram intake? Or would you need to cross connect all 4 carbs?
     
  20. Jeremy Jalopies
    Joined: Jul 28, 2014
    Posts: 142

    Jeremy Jalopies
    Member

    Again, I appreciate the advice. Its gonna be a while...probly a long while on the whole build. Im just looking at parts and costs to know what Im up against.

    Ive never ran multiple carbs so I dont have an answer to that question. My apologies.
     
  21. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,494

    Torkwrench
    Member

    Will never tire of hearing about 350 hp. 327 Chevys. After all, they gave 426 Hemis fits. :D:D:D

    Billy B.....As has already been mentioned, you already have the basics for a really, great running engine. Just need to find a good Muncie or Super T-10 4 speed to go with it. What kind of gear ratio is in the Olds rear axel?
     
  22. Saw a set up where the guy spacers under each carb with hard lines all running together to a 4 way union. Never got to talk to him about it but it made sense.
     
  23. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    There is nothing wrong with the "Independent runners" intake.
    It takes a different skill set to make them run, I can really recommend running IR!

    The sizing of the carb is hard(er), you need more tools and having different jets and parts around help a lot.

    One thing to remember when running IR Is every thing have to be 100 % the same parts, and the carbs has to be synthesized to each other, and then balanced to the weakest carb.

    I would differently run it.

    But go look for for equal length Rubber hoses, to put between 4 equal vacuum gauges, and 4 equal carbs. Use for similar sized drills or feeler gauges to check them for the same speeder response, this has to be done be for the balancing mentioned above.

    This the Holly Vs. Edelbrock dilemma 2.0, because it ain't a open'n'shut case don't mean it can't be done! Don't give up.

    What is inside the car now? Three pedals, torque tube and flathead motor mounts? Is that a kick up at the front?

    More pics?
     
  24. Flamed48
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 673

    Flamed48
    Member

    Don't forget your speed part stickers for the extra horsepower
     
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  25. Jeremy Jalopies
    Joined: Jul 28, 2014
    Posts: 142

    Jeremy Jalopies
    Member

    Im not sure on the gearing yet. Im not that far in the process yet. Ive been eyeballing Saginaw transmissions. The frame does have a kick up. Back in the day(1960s) the car ran an Olds motor with 3x2. I heard it was build for drags. The frame has a weird blocked C notch over the rear axle and a roll bar and a 5g gas tank. As far as whats in the car now...nothing, the firewall has been hacked and pedals are gone.

    Those speed parts stickers reside in a pile on my work bench! haha
     
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  26. Jeremy Jalopies
    Joined: Jul 28, 2014
    Posts: 142

    Jeremy Jalopies
    Member

  27. Just something to keep your excitement up.
    This is the 64- 300hp Corvette 327 out of my ISO Rivolta

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,551

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    You may want to get a spare while your looking, Saginaws don't have a good reputation for holding up to a lot of hp. Now I'm sure that you will get people to claim they have had good luck with them. These same people will also claim a lot more hp than they actually have.
    For the most part, GM only used Saginaws in low hp/torque applicatons and if you are entertaining (any) thoughts of your car seeing dragstrip time, you will be money ahead if you save up for maybe a Muncie or B/W transmission.
     
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  29. Well 350-375 horse is easy enough using stock parts and a single 4. Or you could stroke it using stock parts and come up with an easy 400 HP and keep your inches well below 400. O you could just build it with what you got choose an isky cam that is mild enough to be street driven and be happy with it, then just tell everyone that it is a 400 horse motor. LOL
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
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  30. '52 F-3
    Joined: Sep 30, 2007
    Posts: 906

    '52 F-3
    Member

    nice find................

    Squirrel, What are snowflake heads?
     
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