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Projects Late 60's Vintage Modified

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Shaun1162, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Been a member here for a little while, but just decided to start posting. I picked up this old modified last fall, and now that other projects are being finished up, I'm itching to get working on it.

    We think the car started racing in the mid 60's and only raced up until '68 or '69, or so we have records for. I'll have to sit down and record some of the other history of the car, and how I got my hands on it, but that's for another night.

    I'm not real firmiliar with antique iron this old, so I was hoping you guys can help me identify some things with it. Here's some pictures of it, and maybe someone knows for sure what the body is (My guess is a '33 Plymouth):


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    Different frame maybe? (I think the car used to run a flathead Ford V8)

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    Thanks for looking, and any help identifying the body/frame is greatly appreciated!
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  2. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,835

    Dyce
    Member

    Looks like a 33 ford 5 window coupe. A shame if you keep it in the current race form. From the pictures it looks like a great start for a hotrod!!!
     
  3. Build a hot rod of it! Cool find
     
  4. k9racer
    Joined: Jan 20, 2003
    Posts: 3,117

    k9racer
    Member

    from the looks of the condition of the car it was not raced.. Note no damage to the body. No dents in the rub rails, no frame repair from wrecks. Or maybe it was so fast that it out ran everybody and no one got close enough to hit the car. If you dont want it sell it to me. I have cash in hand and will travel.
     
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  5. jkski
    Joined: Jan 27, 2009
    Posts: 137

    jkski
    Member

    looks like a 1933 or 34 willys 5 window coupe
     
  6. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,598

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Body reveal line tells me it's not a Plymouth or Willys. From what I can see, the 33/34 Ford choice is about right. Given that, it looks like the whole bottom of the body is gone. That would be one tough bring back, but not beyond the capabilities of some people here. It would not be for the faint of heart, however.:(
     
  7. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Thanks for all of the replies guys! And thanks to Dyce and tubman, looks like it is a '33 Ford, and probably the original frame from what I can tell.


    The car hasn't been rolled or wrecked too much, but I think it was because it was always towards the back of the pack haha. Though the side bars (and roll cage) are all made out of heavy 3" black iron pipe, which would be pretty hard smash in compared to what most of the guys ran.

    The body itself is really just a shell, and would be extremely hard to bring back to use as a regular body. All of the interior panels have been gutted, and it's really only the exterior panels left. Not to mention it's welded shut everywhere, the firewall has cuts everywhere and quite a few big dents throughout.

    I worked on the car today, and almost have the body ready to come off. A couple more bolts, and disconnect things like the steering and such, and it should come right off. The frame looks like it's going to be the worst part... There's quite a bit more rot on the back of the frame.

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  8. Cooder2
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 49

    Cooder2
    Member
    from up yours

    Scary rust! But don't give up, that's a fine start of a project
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2012
  9. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,835

    Dyce
    Member

    I'd make it a door slammer street car again if I had it (and I'd love to have the chance). But I see your point of veiw.
     
  10. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Well had some free time this morning and made some more progress:

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    More frame rot:

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    One of the roll cage:

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    Some strange rear suspension set-up... Mid 50's Ford 3/4 Ton rear that was pretty popular with racers back then (Has gears in the high 5 range I think):

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    Only 3 U-joints in the steering!

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    Didn't get pictures, but it also has an old VW gas tank mounted under the trunk, another common thing for old race cars.

    Any idea on what they would have run for a transmission behind a flathead to go to an open driveshaft?
     
  11. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,855

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Open drive transmission behind flathead? Yep. '49-'52 Ford F-1 pickup.
     
  12. toml24
    Joined: Sep 23, 2009
    Posts: 1,474

    toml24
    Member

    It was a race car perhaps from the 1970s but that frame is so far gone with rust and holes I don't know how you could fix it up back to race track condition. If you could though I would recommend restore back to its racing days. It would look very cool.
     
  13. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Thanks Atwater Mike, I'll definately be on the look-out for one now.

    Toml24, is does look bad and it will take alot of time, but fortunately I've got quite a bit of time and the tools to do it. I'm on summer break from college, so for the next two months I have quite a bit of time after work and on weekends. Plus a full shop with a couple welders. I reworked a frame for one of my Dad's old stock cars, and it wasn't this rotted, but it was really beat up and had alot of poor work done on it. At least this one is straight and hasn't been messed with too much.
     
  14. DICK SPADARO
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,887

    DICK SPADARO
    Member Emeritus

    You have a 33 Ford body and chassis, looks to be 48 Ford passenger car axle with safety 3/4 ton Rf hub and stock 39 lF hub, the rear looks to be an old peach pit style from a 3/4 ton truck. The center steering is unique but not out of place. This car has the look to be of 50's construction as the rules imposed in the later 60's or 70's had more stricter safety features even for NH or Vt cars. Although the chassis has some rust out areas they can be easily repaired so you have a good begining of a period vintage rce car. You might go on to some of the New England vintage stock car sites or post this on the Dogfight chat room that is a sister to Jalopy Journal publication there are a number of vintage racers on that site and you may get addtional information.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  15. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Thanks for all of the info and to help identify parts, and the RF hub is off a 3/4 ton and 8-lug. You might be right on when it was built, have to do some more digging on it, but the car did run up until '68 or '69, we have a couple old brochures for the Claremont speedway that show the 210 and driver in the rosters. And thanks for the heads up on the Dogfight site as well
     
  16. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Made some progress today...
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    Taking the front end and rearend over to our other shop to work on at some points (got 3 out of 4 drums to turn so far, but the rearend might be junk)..
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    Frame ready to deliver and have it sandblasted, just have to put a strap on the back haha
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    Hopefully I can get the chassis sandblasted, and I should also be picking up a motor, transmission, and radiator from a guy tomorrow. Happened to stop on Saturday and he had a '46 F-6 he was trying to sell or part out, so I picked up the drivetrain reasonable and he's going to keep the rest.
     
  17. meengrinch
    Joined: Jun 22, 2008
    Posts: 518

    meengrinch
    Member
    from ipswich ma

    Nice find......take your time and locate some old pics of this racer. Looking at the construction it is a very good looking car for its day. I'd guess in the mid 50's. Where it was found may give clues. Keene state fair raced just this type of car......one guy to call is a Peter Von Schneider .he knows a lot of old history..and has a close looking car to yours. Keep posting.....
     
  18. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Thanks for the comment and info... I'll have to look that guy up. An old guy that lives across from my Father's business used to race in the same era, at the same track. Unfortunately he doesn't remember the car, but I think he's tracked down someone that had photors... Have to follow up on that lead too.


    Got the engine home yesterday... 8RT flathead, looks pretty decent. Guy said he poured a little gas down the carb, turned it over and when he heard it pop he stopped.. Only has exhaust manifolds on it, and said he was afraid of dropping a valve. Have to wait and see how she runs, but I can turn over the engine by hand just by turning over the flywheel/clutch.. Is this normal?

    Also, the transmission is a 4 speed out of an F-6, will this work for a car like this? One guy said they aren't synchro gears, and another told me I had to find a car one... Are the '49-'53 F1 transmissions synchromesh?

    Again thanks for the help guys!
     
  19. meengrinch
    Joined: Jun 22, 2008
    Posts: 518

    meengrinch
    Member
    from ipswich ma

    I think 49-53 may be synchros but not top loaders.........1939 and up cars are synchro and top loaders
     
  20. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,598

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Take a look at my modified in my albums on my page. I bought it from a farm where it had been sitting for 30 years. It had a lot of original parts. Make sure you keep everything you got with it. Abou 5 years after I got it, it turned out to be the "Minnesota State Stock Car Championship" car for 1965 and 1966; at least in southern Minnesota, anyway. :D
     
  21. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Nice car! Did it run with that motor back then??
     
  22. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Worked on the front-end, and took some pictures but forgot my camera at the shop. Got both drums and blacking plates off, cleaneded up some stuff, and it's pretty much ready for paint now. I'm sure I should have taken everything apart, sandblasted, etc, etc, but I'm trying to leave it kind of rough- like they were back in the day.

    Also went to the local junkyard today to visit with the old timer that runs it. He used to race alot back in the day, at the same track this car did, and when I showed him some pictures he said he remembered it, and saw it in another junkyard a while back. Proved pretty helpful on some parts. The seats usually came out of buses or old vans, and the seat belt came out of an air plane.

    Also had to ask him about the transmssion. He has two transmissions that will fit a flathead (not sure what bellhousing yet though..) and go to an open drive shaft. They're both side loaders, which I'm not sure will work well in my car, have to do more research. One of them was in a race car decades ago, and has a real short shifter that sits in the middle of the transmission which might work well.
     
  23. Dans28Tdr
    Joined: Apr 13, 2007
    Posts: 41

    Dans28Tdr
    Member

    Good Luck. These old vintage modifieds are a blast. Look around for a club. Vintage Oval Racing magazine is a great source for events and contacts.

    Dan
    98 Vintage Modified
    Fort Worth, TX
     
  24. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Made some more progress.. Dug into the front end and rear-end. Front end is pretty much ready to paint with POR-15, rearend needs some more attention before paint. Would like to weld the other bolt/threaded rod first, but our 220 welder needs a new liner.

    Got most of the stuff off of the motor to get ready for paint and stuff...

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    Front end- Drums came off pretty easy, just needed to adjust the shoes on the driver side..

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    Check out these wheel lug adapters- go from 8 lug, to wide 5 bolt patterns:

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    The rearend proved a little more difficult... The drivers side drum/backing plate came off slick for having sat outside without an axle for probably 20 years. The passenger side was a bit more challenging... Never seen rot holes in a brake drum before, and the brakes ended up just coming out with it, after I unbolted the wheel cylinder:

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    Then I opened up the rearend to look at the gears...

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    Might need to find a different pumpkin...

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  25. Nice find. those 8 hole to wide five were used a lot in the 60's and even into the 70's. likewise, the old 3/4 ton split tail rearend. We used them because they usually had 6.67 gears in them.
    note the front hub on our 57 back in 1975 ish.
     

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  26. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,598

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No. Back in the day it ran a highly modified 324 Oldsmobile. When I got it, it didn't have an engine. I had the Hemi, and it went right in with an adapter plate and some minor motor mount work. After I started getting information about the car, I started looking for parts and found a proper Olds Rocket, and even managed to get the orginal Offy 3 duece manifold that the car ran back in the '60's from one of the subsequent owners. The same guy is supossed to have the original magneto and headers, but I can't get hold of him anymore. He was in pretty bad health when I got the manifold, so I don't think he's with us anymore. The plan was to get the parts and put an Olds back in, but I'm missing some expensive and hard to get parts, so I keep putting it off. The hemi runs hard and I've got a lot of money in it, so I'm taking the easy way out.

    Thanks for asking. I love talking about this car.:)
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  27. Man, just talking about those early day's and old coupes makes me want to start hunting for some of my old mods. This one most of all.
     

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  28. meengrinch
    Joined: Jun 22, 2008
    Posts: 518

    meengrinch
    Member
    from ipswich ma

    What are you doing for a rear end..".i have a 3/4 ton ford rear that came out of a race car
     
  29. Terrible Tom
    Joined: Feb 15, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Terrible Tom
    Member

    That's a great car and good of you to bring her back from the dead. I have my own vintage stock car project and just love these things. They did some pretty crude work back in the day, but then they didn't have plasma cutters and nice garages to work in. Many were built in the back yard with a stick welder and a cutting torch. She's rough, but you can save her.
    Tom
     
  30. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
    Member

    Sure a cool looking coupe! You never know... If you ask around you might just get lucky

    Nice lookin old car! Always liked the looks of the big cars that raced back in the day... The 3/4 ton split rearends were pretty popular around here as well, just about every race car I've seen from this time frame has one in it, or probably did at some point. I counted the teeth in mine, and I think it came out to 5.83 or 5.87, but I've heard people say different ratios in the 5's and 6's... Did they used to sell aftermarket gears for race cars back then?

    Actually I'm planning on using this one again... It looked pretty rough when I tore it down, but for the heck of it I started to clean up the pumpkin and it wasn't too bad. The spider gears were welded for a locker, and the ring gear has some pitting on three of the gears.. For the limited use this will see I think it'll be alright. What kind of suspension did they have with that rear? Leaf springs? All this has is two bolts welded the rearend, with small coil springs between the frame and the rearend... Must have wobbled quite a bit, and probably went through quite a few U-joints too!

    Thanks for the comment Tom. I always like to save the things that no one else has much interest in... Especially something that has some local history with it. I've seen some real crude work on different cars, especially with welds. Fortunately this car was built by someone that really knew how to weld... The welding on the front end, roll cage, side bars, etc. is pretty amazing for just an old stick welder. Whoever welded definately had some skills. The rear-end was welded by someone else... They're decent welds, but not like the rest of the car.. Must have had to change it at some point.



    Been doing some more work on the car, just not alot to show for it. Picked up an engine stand for free from a junkyard the other day, and I put the flathead on it and really cleaned it up today. Should be pretty much ready for paint now. Been waiting for a liner for our 220 MIG which should be here tomorrow.. Then things should move a little quicker.

    Also learned some more about the history of the car. It was built back in the early 60's or so and there was a group of guys that called it the "Sidewinders Club" I'm told. They were numbered from 205 up to 211, and were all pretty similar. I beleive the original owner is still alive, and an old guy helping me with research said he went and talked to his wife one day and said they might have a couple pictures. They only raced it for one year and got out of it because it was too expensive. Also went back and looked at our track brochures, and this car raced up until 1971, and perhaps 1972 (the track changed from dirt to asphault soon after).
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012

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