Technical Lacquer Paint Questionnaire

thank god Gary is retired
I for One love Lacquer
do you think Gene Winfield would still be hustlin chicks if he had been shooting urethane all these years

 

This happened to a buddy of mine after he had just finished shooting his car outdoors in black enamel. He sprayed the car real early on a spring morning when the air was nice and still, about a half hour after he finished spraying, the first cottonwood hatch of the season came up, by the time the paint kicked, the car looked like a seagull chick!

 

I'm not a painter at all. But I see TONS of the old "500 coats of hand rubbed lacquer" paint jobs at the Museum every day. Nearly every car with more than five years on the paint is cracking and lifting.

Big money spent, heart broken owners, every time.

 

that % of clear sometimes was 90%( lets use black for the fun of it) 10% clear
for a set of 3/4 dbl coats then sand...in between EACH % change as follows-->
then 75%black 25%clear
then 50/50
then 75clear 25%black
then LAST 90%clear 10% black....
and jafo's ( observers ) / people thought we were nuts...
because it LQQKed like scotchTAPE frosty on the roll.... till
the rubbin -n- buffen started, then it INSTANTLY went to a D E E P bottomless ....depth.

ha

for the FAST out the door buff jobs you would masking tape ALL the
edges corners and grooves( you know areas that when buffed ) would buff right back down to the primer
or worse, and then HAND rub the remaining areas after you pulled the TAPE off.

kool

 

You know, if you are a guy who hates lacquer and loves the plastic "new car" look of base/clear, then why are you on this thread? There is a body shop on every corner in the country waiting to cater to your segement of the market, just move along. CLEARLY, THIS thread is here for guys that want to shoot their cars in lacquer, if you don't want it, what are you doing here? I really get sick of this "my way or the highway" shit...
I can shoot a car three to four times in lacquer for what it costs me to have a "pro" paint my car ONCE in the modern stuff that's too toxic for me to spray at home. And I have seen literally DOZENS of garage kept hot rods with lacquer on them that is 15-20 years old or more that look great. So, lemme see, that's what, worst case scenario, THIRTY YEARS worth of lacquer for what it costs me to pay a guy to shoot my car in BC/CC once, and it still wont look like lacquer.

 

Nothing looks better, nothing smells better, you can shoot it in your garage without every thing being sticky, you don't have to have a HAZMAT suit....... oh did I say it looks better.

 

Some know the difference, some don't. Some cant tell sirloin from porterhouse either...
Seriously, lets keep this thread on topic for those of us that CAN TELL, and still want to shoot our cars in lacquer. If you cant tell/don't give a shit/ like the look of base clear, that's fine, that's great, I'm happy for you, but there are plenty of threads where you can rant about lacquer to your hearts content, this aint it.
This one is not the place for the usual "lacquer sucks" rants, this guy wants to try to fill a gap in the market, he sure as hell isn't gonna FORCE you to take some of his lacquer, so if you don't have anything constructive to contribute, just move along.
Nuff said (I hope), lets get this back on track.

 

As an observation.....
We've got a great member here, Paint Guru, who has started a couple paint threads that to me, have been invaluable.
He spends his time answering every question with thoughtful helpful information.
His "primer thread" has about 8 pages and nobody has started bickering. It's pretty nice.
If you'd like some good insight on lacquer composition and techniques, this is the thread.
If you want to discuss why lacquer is crap, start another thread.

 

All we are doing is talking about using lacquer some of us used it in the 70's 80's till the EPA took all the good stuff out then shop found they could spray BC/CC faster without all the prep work.But you primed and got it straight and then coat it with color if you wantec it deeper you block the color and shot it some more.But you had no window to use the paint up.Leave BC/CC in gun overnight and see what happens.I just don't like to have to mix every day to maybe shoot a small piece and have to mix up a little here and there.But I guess everyone has his or her way.Painted my 55 in drive way part at a time

 

I did a lot of motorcycles in laquer. Like anything else I tend to use the 7 p's. Prior-Proper-Preparation-Prevents-Piss-Poor-Performance. Be it welding wiring engine work upholstery or whatever if your a craftsman you know what it takes. You enjoy every minute of it. That said you can do a lot of things with laquer if you have the patience and skill set. 1/2 the work comes after you spray it.

 

Lacquer is & will always be my favorite. I mixed untold amounts lucite for body shops in the late 70s & early 80s. It doesn't have that fake look to it many modern paints have plus all the user friendly "boo boo" touch up attributes were great. Last year my boy & I hand rubbed my 27 year old "OT" gm "A" body's lacquer out using Meguiars ultimate compound & took it to Super Chevy show in Memphis & runnered up, not even expecting a thing. It won its class in 1992 & I've drove it a lot since then spot touched up rock chips & keeping it detailed. We just wanted to get it out & enjoy the weekend with other car nuts. What a suprise, he got his pic in the magazine at 11 years old. I will always love lacquer & all our family's classic / cars save one is lacquer. I always mixed us 1-1/2 gallons & poured them back and forth saving the extra for future touch ups. I hear it can still be had in Canada? Who knows. Flux

 

Sooooo true. Great post

 

The reason lacquer is still available is for the musical instruments industry and furniture. Any market that wants to purchase such material is always welcome. Is it the end-all do-all? Of course not. Will it live perfectly year after year in the parking lot at work? Will it be essentially maintenance free with just a few automatic car washes per year? Yeah, right. However, with proper attention to film build and dedicated care you can get decades out of it. Like F'George said above, if you know it and want it take a seat. If you the think this is a plot to overthrow the BC/CC industry and hold painters hostage that refuse to use it, well, that action is down the street up the north alley, turn right at the sewer drain, knock 3 times 3 times, tell them Gino sent you and...

 

AINT IT BITCHEN

 

I painted my first car in cheap enamel (shot with a vacuum cleaner gun), the second in NC lacquer and from then on it was acrylic lacquer until the catalyzed enamels took over in the early 80's (in Australia). I am with the rest of the garage painters in that lacquer (especially the more durable acrylic) is a lot easier to use in a non professional situation. When I had my body shop we did a lot of black cars and used the paint/clear mix as described above to get depth.
If you are trying to get a period correct (60's/70's) look to a pearl job, especially white, it is just about mandatory to use lacquer. The late Mike Mitchell of "World's Fastest Hippie" Corvette gasser fame told me that when he restored the car in the early 90's he had to "smuggle" the lacquer into California so that he could duplicate the original look of the paint.

Roo

 

Was it inherent to lacquer that it would crack? Or, was it an application issue? I mean, you weren't guaranteed it was going to crack, right?

 

Wow, I must have hit a nerve? George-I always took you to be 'straight up' guy, why are you lashing out at me?
In my short post I never used the word "hate", nor did I say to only use BC/cc.
I was only trying to convey that lacquer paint jobs are expensive, and don't really last like the owners thought they could/should.
If you have a car that you think absolutely has to be done in lacquer, right on, do it.
Recently there was a guy, had a big dollar car, had some financial problems, was wanting a loan against the car.(not my business who/what/how he owes the money) the car needs an appraisal. Appraiser dings the market value for about 300k as the paint is cracked and popping off in places, mostly the hood, as they flex quite a bit on these type of cars.
The owner is literally crying," But I spent blah,blah on this paint job"
It was awkward, embarrassing, and sad all at the same time.

 

Well said.

 

I have the same attitude towards you weps, the reason I got pissed with you is this thread is about someone that is interested in filling an opening gap in the market for a high quality automotive lacquer product, and what characteristics those of us that WANT to shoot lacquer expect/desire in that product.

It is NOT the place for "lacquer sucks" rants because that will de-rail the thread, and possibly the whole process here. In other words, you and others using this particular thread to express your negative opinion of lacquer is disrupting the ENTIRE PURPOSE of this thread. If you want to learn a bit about lacquer, and maybe even lose or alter some of your negative perceptions, stick around, lurk and learn.
But don't use this thread as a place to bitch about lacquer, that will disrupt the process, and possibly even PREVENT GUYS LIKE ME FROM SEEING A QUALITY LACQUER PRODUCT COME TO MARKET, so I can continue to get my product of choice going forward.
So if you want to pee in the pool, don't pee in this one, go start a new one titled "why I think lacquer sucks". Pretty please?
I really hope this will be the last post of this sort we need on this thread, and we can move forward and stay on-topic here.
Weps, I will send you a pm.

 

I started painting in a shop in '64 , we had 2 choices , laccquer or synthetic enamel..lacquer was for repair/spot-ins & was considered "the best" paint , synthetic was for fleet vehicle , auction specials & people who were just trying to keep the ol' clunker on the road. Only thing I liked about synthetic was you didn't have to buff it ....lacquer was the preferred choice for "good" cars...I agreee that BC/CC looks phoney/plastic , 'spotting in" w/o ghosting is difficult , at best...open time sux , I wish there was a source for small quanities of lacquer for spot in jobs...that I didn't have to sell a kidney to get !!
dave

 

I started painting in the early 80s with catylized paints and have done the last couple jobs with SS Urethane. Like the maroon suv posted I LOVE the look of a glassy SS. But, I would like to see what the guru comes up with for lacquers. There is a place for everything, my 51 GMC will be a daily driver with SS urethane but the Model A would look good and be fun to use lacquer.

 

One thing I have always heard from the "oldtimers" is that the longer you wait before the final cut and buff, the better the final result, because the paint will be harder and cut cleaner. I wait about a month. I'd like to hear Highlanders and Richard Wrights opinions on this especially. Is this overkill/old wifes-painters tale, or truth?
This will probably tie into paint-pros question as well I would guess, vary with how the paint is formulated?

 

I painted my 32 Roadster in Nitrocellulose lacquer sevn or so years back, and i love the way it looks, the need to buff it every year to stop milkiness forming is an arse ache ,though. Im kind of odd, in that im wanting it to start crows footing and wearing out..but it has held up pretty darn well. With two days of careful buffing and hand finishing Im sure it would look pretty much as lovely as the day it was finished. it is very easy to chip, but i like that too! Im a proponent of painting your car in the system that was in common use in the era to which you are building it. stupid, dumb, and too much work compared to paint and rollit out the door products now available..but why stop the period correct thing at the most visible part of the car if thats what you are into? The other nice thing is that the produsct itself is dead cheap, like 200 bucks for 5 GALLONS of black nitro!

 

i'm kinda referring to highlanders post #44( i'm on your side )
and S O R R Y a bit off subject, but as of late i run into mech's that have NEVER dealt with
P O I N T S ... and so a, the ANTI laquer guys MAY have NEVER painted it...

 

I've painted several cars and bikes with lacquer over the years, all kinds of colors and metalflake but mostly black. Only cracking problem I had was around the large rear window on a Barrracuda fastback with a 440... too much body flex in that area before I put sub-frame connectors on it. And I agree; if you only paint a car every few years and are going to do it at home lacquer is the way to go... if you can still get it. I used to shoot it, wait a couple of weeks then color-sand and buff out. Always looked good and very easy to repair if you screwed up.

 

George,
the trick with acrylic lacquer is to let it sit long enough for any residual solvent to "cook off" before sanding an buffing. I found with NC lacquer that I could get a finish off the gun that was good to go in most cases without rubbing and buffing but when the acrylics took over it got hard to find NC.
In Australia in the 60's/70's GM used acrylic lacquer as the OEM finish while just about everyone else had gone to baked enamel. Touch up on those vehicles (baked enamel) required the use of blending clear as just about everyone used acrylic lacquer for repair. Some of the factory bake enamel had so much orange peel that on commercial/fleet vehicles we quite often cheated by passing on the blending clear and "flushing" the edges of the repaired are with straight reducer after painting to knock down the overspray and hide the blend. You could not buff that area as it would take the repair right off the top of the bake enamel (which was generally as hard as hell) but with the commercial jobs nobody was likely to polish or wax the vehicle anyway.
As for lacquer being prone to cracking, it will usually only be susceptible to that if you do the "45 coats of hand rubbed lacquer" deal rather then applying just enough paint to do the job. I did all of my painting in South Australia which has a climate that parallels Arizona in the summer and gets down to about freezing point in winter so paint got a pretty good workout there.

Roo

 

If heavy orange peel. wet sand to the minimum. minimum. The buffing will further flatten (Remove) material. Polish just enough for clarity. THEN bury surface w/#7 Glaze of Meguiars by hand. It needs to be done several time's a day, leaving on coat over night. The glow that only lacquer can achieve is worth it. STOP OT-ing already. Answer the direct question of the OP, as anything else is derail. High jack. OR worse the gate keeper syndrome of the post ho's. The drama queen needs another time out.

 

I think that GM continued to use Lacquer into the early 80s, here in the U.S.

 

yup.