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Technical Lacquer Paint Questionnaire

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Paint Guru, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

    Updates please.
     
  2. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,980

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    ^^^Yes, update!^^^
     
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  3. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    Lacquer is a complete success. The voc is gonna come in at 2.8 voc for you California guys. The fender looks great, we even polished a area to see if there were issues, and it polished out very well. It's going to be offered in a high strength version and lower strength. The lower strength will mirror the older lacquer, but we did test against another company's lacquer and our lower strength still covered in 4 coats with red. Theirs were almost 9 full wet coats. I can't get the voc all the way down to 2.8 in high strength just yet off my system . But we are working on a full low voc system, which will be available worldwide (as long as we have importers and jobbers willing to put the line in, however we can sell Canada and California directly through our plant in Kansas the High Strength lacquer at 2.8 and can possibly get down to 2.1 if needed. )

    Also April 22nd we are have a Saturday training class full day on the restoration process from panel replacement to spraying our lacquer. Class cost is $20 (because we are fitting everyone with a correct size respirator, and giving everyone a respirator) We will have representatives from USC and SEM teaching as well. Class will be divided up, so you will have 2-3 hours with each representative working hands on with the product. We will go over the best buffing procedure for our lacquer as well. We are working with a buffing supply manufacturer on a system that works best for the lacquer.

    One last thing, if any of you are building a car for SEMA this year. Show us your receipt for your space and if you display our sign, we will sponsor all the paint for your vehicle.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  4. Thanks for the update! I will be interested to see how guys with a lot of lacquer experience find the depth is compared to original lacquer. In some ways I would think better coverage may not be a good thing for people trying to achieve the look of traditional lacquers as part of what gave it that look was the fact that it didn't cover well and you needed lots of very thin coats. It is my understanding that this is what gave the paint the depth that most say modern paints don't have. Almost like a candy.
     
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  5. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    That's correct, but they could get the coverage first then use the lacquer clear as a integrated clear. The system can do so much, and is so user friendly, I think if they play with it, they will find a technique that is perfect for them.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  6. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

    Thanks for the reply. Earlier you said you were going to shoot some black. How did it turn out? Any photos?
     
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  7. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    I didn't shoot the black yet. We will be doing all our buffing test using the black though. I have a hood ready just got to get it done.


    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  8. 32v
    Joined: May 20, 2007
    Posts: 952

    32v
    Member
    from v.i.

    when you shoot the black can you let us know if it is the brown blk or blue blk
     
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  9. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    Lol we have about 10 different black pigments. And each one has different purpose. We have a factory pack blue black that is a extremely deep black. However we have not built it in a lacquer yet but it will work, don't know what voc we can get it at.
    Blacks are the most complicated color, and hardest to explain. A gray black, brown black, green black or blue black will all look slick and black, it's when they are compared to another black is where you see the difference. Just the type solvent you add when grinding the pigment, the type mill you use, pigment brand, how long you grind it all plays a part in the jetness of a black. If you want a deep black lacquer, we can definitely build it. However what you consider a real blue black, might be completely different than ours, we compare ours to the deepest black out there.
    A brown black vs a blue black the pigment cost about 65 percent more, plus a brown black takes 8 hours to grind, blue blacks take up to 48 hours.
    The black I can currently build it in without any extra effort and low voc will be the same shade as code UA on Ford or wa8555 on GM. It's not a blue nor brown black, it's on the grayer scale if comparing to our deepest black. I will spray with this but it's going to look slick and black. Send me a pm and I will send you a actual spray out to compare.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  10. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    Please forgive this neophyte question, but what is the difference between "high strength" and "lower strength" lacquer? Are they for different applications or...?
    Thanks for all the great information you've provided and your work on this project.
    -Dave
     
  11. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    Good question, so the strength is based on the amount of the colored pigment that's in the paint. Pigment is what drives the cost as well. If it has a high pigment load, you will achieve full color saturation quicker. So basically for a black lacquer high strength has about 1.5-2 lbs of black pigment per gallon. The low strength has about 3/4 of a lb of black pigment. White for high strength has about 4 lbs of Ti02, and low strength had about 2.5 lbs. Another way to look at it is coats- high strength you can have full coverage in 1 coat where low strength can be 3,4 and even 5 coats to achieve full coverage. Some colors just can't be high enough strength to achieve 1 coat coverage because it can dull the paint down because too much pigment load is in there,not allowing the resin to float high enough to the top of the film.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  12. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    Thank you that makes sense. Again I appreciate your willingness to share with all us knuckle draggers!
    -Dave
     
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  13. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    Just thought I would share this. We did spray some black lacquer last night, after our paint clinic. We went over a red fender and I made this one the low solids version of lacquer.
    20170316_201709.jpg
    This is the first coat of black over the red fender that we prepped with 800 grit. (the fender has runs, trash and everything you can imagine. (used for training)
    20170316_205123.jpg
    Here is one of the guys sanding the lacquer smooth after 4 coats.

    Next we put 4 or 5 more coats on. Here is what the lacquer looks like dry out of the gun, no buffing.
    20170316_205731.jpg
    20170316_205739.jpg

    Of course we sanded through trying to smooth the old runs out of the fender, so we sprayed 4 more coats on, let it dry, sanded and a quick buff.
    20170316_233504.jpg

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  14. Guru, on the red fender above, what was the elapsed time of that whole process mentioned?
     
  15. mikhett
    Joined: Jan 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,412

    mikhett
    Member
    from jackson nj

    I am interested in purchasing your white lacquer.I have a62 Ford galaxy xl in white SPI Epoxy primer waiting on final blocking.
     
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  16. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    Total time was right at a hour, first coat flashed off in 2 mins, the other coats I put on heavier and gave about 5 mins between coats and put 10 coats on the fender. I didn't time flash times, just when the fender was hand slick without tracking.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  17. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    No problem, send me a message with what year or code of white you want, and we will get it mixed and shipped.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  18. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    Just fyi, we have not wrote a technical data sheet on the lacquer yet. So other than here on the HAMB there is no where else to get our lacquer info.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  19. Hendee
    Joined: Sep 12, 2009
    Posts: 155

    Hendee
    Member

    Just read this whole thread. Plenty of great info to guys starting out. Thanks. Any further updates?

    Tom
     
  20. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    Lacquer is going great and is available from jobbers across the Southeast, and we can ship to all 48 states. Just a reminder we are having a hands on clinic Saturday April 22nd. Cost is $20.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  21. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 4,247

    indyjps
    Member

    Great read, keep the info coming, I'm a long way from paint.
     
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  22. AllLikkeredUp
    Joined: Oct 12, 2017
    Posts: 7

    AllLikkeredUp

    Anyone still watching this thread? I'm a new poster here, so be gentle...

    I been breathing lacquer fumes since the 60's and thanks to some out-of-state sources I'm still getting it and shooting it and seeing my increasingly ugly reflection grinning right back at me every time. But I just ran into a situation that kinda puzzles me and am hoping that someone can set me straight. I only want to hear from lacquer heads, coz' I don't want nobody telling me I should be shooting some modernistic paint industry chemistry experiment.

    Here's the situation. I'm doing some touch-up and blending on a 35-year old lacquer job - medium blue - and when I get my paint on, color sanded and buffed out, it's like glass as it's supposed to be, but in the right light (or maybe it's the wrong light), I can see some minute scratches showing thru. The scratches are not on the surface, but seem buried deep in the finish, and I sand carefully, wet, and super fine. So, I ask what's that about?

    Backstory: I got the new paint mixed pretty damn close and the blend is about as good as it could be. I sand the old paint where I will have an blended edge using 600 then up to 1200. This sanding removes the faded old surface paint and exposes paint that hasn't been subject to whatever over the years. Here's what I do: imagine a spot of surface rust creeping under a few chips/cracks on the edge of the hood. I first degrease the whole hood, and scuff sand around the repair area and create a blend area of about 12" around the vicinity of the chip. I do that sanding with 600, then work up to 1200. Then I clean up the rust spot - don't worry how, coz that's not important for my question - then I prime (lacquer) then lay on hi-build lacquer primer on an area of about 6" around the repaired spot. Then - now pay attention - I sand the primer flat and smooth - 600, then 1200 - blending the sanded area into the surrounding old paint. Following this? Then I'll shoot my color, maybe 4 coats, all within that 1200 grit sanded area, then sand the new paint with 1200, and another 4 or 6 coats, 1200 again, then buff out. The lacquer shines up flat, deep, and like glass, can't barely see where the old paint stops and the new paint starts, but I can see some freaking faint sanding scratches.

    I've never had this scratch thing before. My only guess is that I should be following the 1200 with 2500 and maybe 3000? Or is there some big flaw in my process that I'm missing?

    Thanks...
     
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  23. I run a buffer with fine polishing compound in the area to be blended into so there is no scratches them I clean with pre clean the area tack and blend. Then cut and polish it , I hope will help you out. You can PM me if you need to Frank
     
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  24. AllLikkeredUp
    Joined: Oct 12, 2017
    Posts: 7

    AllLikkeredUp

    I like that answer, 1-Shot. You're basically saying to get things real smooth at the blend zone, way smoother than what I get with my 1200 grit. I'll give that a try when the UPS guy arrives with more paint.
     
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  25. Buff the entire area and wash with wax and grease remover then tack and paint and use the thinner to burn the edges in let dry and color sand and buff out. Practice on a test panel first. Frank
     
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  26. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 616

    KenC
    Member

    Been a long time since I last shot lacquer, but that sure sounds like the prime.r needs to cure longer. Maybe fine sanding scratch in the primer swelling/shrinking under the top coats.
     
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  27. If you sand all the scratches as you go with finer paper and not to try to fill them with primer also works. Also too hot of thinner will raise sand scratches. Best to get scratches out and not fill them.
    It's best to get all the scratches out of the filler and feather edge all areas to get all scratches out before primer then you have less chance of raising sand scratches because you already removed them. I still buff the whole area including primer to set up for a blend. Be sure to allow proper time for substrates to dry.
    I seen some painter just throw it on and come out perfect, but they are few and far between. And don't use a jitter bug sander only a DA random orbit
     
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  28. AllLikkeredUp
    Joined: Oct 12, 2017
    Posts: 7

    AllLikkeredUp

    I've been out in the shop squinting at the hood from all angles and I'm feeling like the 1200 grit just wasn't fine enuf. The scratches are near invisible, but of course they are all I can see, and they seem confined to the blend zone where the new paint went on over the old, so it's not a primer or substrate cure issue. The scratchy blend zone is an area I'd scuffed with 1200 to bring up the old color lurking under years of oxidized paint and to give something for the new paint to bite into. I'm definitely thinking that 1-shot's suggestion of buffing before painting would have avoided this problem.

    I'm also thinking that maybe the new paint's reducer didn't melt the old finish enough for the miniscule sanding scratches in the old paint to flow out. I say this because I sure haven't had fine sanded surface scratches on new paint telegraph through to additional coats - I mean, I've sanded with 600 between coats and the 600 scratches disappear. This suggests to me that fresh finishes melt more readily than older ones, and I'd blending and touching up a 30 year old job. Talk about cure time! Does that theory have any legs?

    So, the present question is what now? On one hand, I don't have a lot to lose, since the worst case is that I'll just sand it all down, smoothing up to maybe 2500, then buff, and repaint. But before I do that, does anyone have any thoughts for a fix? Just 2500 grit then buff? Cover it with decals? Brush on truck bed liner?

    But, seriously, thanks.
     
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  29. the new lacquer thinners just are not the same. you are probably right about it not working on the old finish.
     
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  30. What temp. thinner are you using
     
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