History Just read a little of the Ed Winfield post........2 up and 2 down??

Anybody wanna shed some light on the benefit of this type of crank shaft? Is it kinda like the new crankshaft Corvettes (new ones) are running? Does it sound different (probably a dumb question) IF it made more power why didn't "Henry" build'em that way?
Lottsa questions.
6sally6

 

I think what your refuring too is a 180* crankshaft and if i recall they are only good for lower R.P.M. (under 4,000).

 

Just google “flat plane” crankshaft.
They’ve been around Along time.
Lighter, faster reving, higher reving, better exhaust scavenging, higher vibration levels.
Exotics and racecars.

 

Ed Winfield made the " 2 up 2 down " crank for his T race car.
A model T engine has 2 intake ports
1&2 share a port & 3&4 share a port.
the firing order is 1 2 4 3. This results in a " rich / lean " situation.
# 1 robs from #2 , & #4 robs from # 3.
with the " 2 up 2 down crank ", the firing order is 1 3 2 4 ,
Each cylinder gets a full charge as this firing order cures the Siamese port " robbing " situation.
I hope that makes sense for you .

Rick Rawlins acquired the original Winfield engine & I recreated the car around it . . .

 

2 up 2 down, or flat plane, or 180 degree crankshaft is the same as used in all inline 4 cylinder engines. It was also used on the first V8 engines, from 1915 to 1922. Its drawback was the 4 cylinder type secondary vibration. By setting the crank pins at 90 degrees, this vibration was eliminated.

Some large 4 cylinder engines have a set of balance shafts running at twice engine speed to damp out this vibration.

They say the flat crank gives more horsepower.

Later... I was talking about the typical 4 cyl and early V8 crank with the 2 end crankpins down when the 2 middle ones are up. This arrangement gives perfect primary balance but has a secondary vibration at twice engine speed.
I don't know about any other arrangement. You could make a crank one up - one down - one up - one down but it would create a terrific rocking couple or primary vibration.

 

Not so fast !
The " 2up 2 down " crank is unique among 4 cylinder cranks.
Looking at a typical inline 4 cylinder crank, the #1 & #4 throws are in line & the #2 & #3 throws are in line.
On the Winfield " 2 up & 2 down " crank, the #1 & #2 throws are in line, & the #3 & #4 throws are in line.
This allows for the " 1 3 2 4 " firing order, which corrects the Siamese port problem !
Think about it . . .

 

Pete this should help clear it up. How well does the recreation run? I seem to recall 120 mph being mentioned about its speed for the original car Ed built.

 

I did get it, and came back and corrected my original post. Both cranks you describe are 2 up and 2 down, just in a different order.

The crank shown above would have a terrific rocking couple type vibration but maybe that didn't matter in a racing engine. Seems like a lot of trouble to go to, to get over a design defect in a cheap Ford engine when there were lots better engines available.

 

Old thread I know.
180* "flat" cranks were some what popular in the flathead V8,s during the "roadster" circle track days. Norden comes to mind.

 

42 Merc, the 180 degree cranks did have some popularity back then, but this particular engine and crank is NOT a 180 degree crank.

 

Firing is still 180°

 

Seb, true but seems like there was a bit of confusion as to how the crank was layed out.

 

Only the C8.R (the factory race car) will get the flat plane crank. It has harmonic issues that would disallow its use in anything with a factory warranty, but you did not hear that from me.